Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

@Zod666 OP there's a big difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. In the later, I think it's parents who don't know how to parent 'opting' for their interpretation of 'gentle' parenting, and they aren't arsed to put any work in at all.
Taking a non-punitive approach to parenting is much harder work than punitive or permissive care. Permissive, to me, seems very much about giving in for a quiet life and letting the child rule the roost, and punitive relies on fear and quick punishments, which won't necessarily guarantee long term compliance or cooperation from your children.

Physical punishment is abuse, and that's that. You wouldn't get away with assaulting another adult the same size & strength as you.
Resorting to physical discipline smacks (pun intended) of a lack of control on the part of the parent, who can't make the child comply by other means.
I refuse to accept the 'it never did me any harm' stance.

I firmly believe parenting needs to include boundaries and discipline, but that could mean something as simple as a set bedtime.
Discipline does not = punishments.

Always grateful that my children don’t fear me.

I have a (estranged) family member who would physically discipline her children. They have been removed from her and they have absolutely no desire to see her.

Why do you think that, OP?
I know I'm not only speaking for myself when I say I didn't suddenly start to lose control or think my children deserving of physical punishment when they reached the ages of 5-8

@Zod666 it sounds as if your friends son had pda particularly if the school are raising it as an issue so she should certainly look into that.

if so no amount of corporal punishment will help but she does need help

"Smacking" is a cutesy euphemism for hitting. There's nothing reasonable about hitting a child to get that child to conform whether you regard it as somehow "moderate" or within ill-defined "sensible limits".

Well, yes, I'm vehemently opposed to smacking so I agree. However, it seems to me that many of the 'it never did me any harm' brigade (I don't mean on this thread so much as on other ones I've read on MN) are parents themselves, so I wouldn't necessarily assume parents are by default more clued up on how to discipline children than the childless are.

If smacking is so great why didn't you just hit your GD?

Tell that to the fuck load of shit parents who just squeak 'Please don't do that darling' in a tiny mousey voice after feckin' Sebastian has just slammed little Tabatha face first into concrete!

These people are out there, spawning unruly kids by the van load, avoiding effective parenting for dear life and their kids will be sitting next to your kids in classrooms.

I think child centric weak parenting is harming children and setting them up for failure.

It's our jobs as parents to prepare our children for the world and for them to accept that it doesn't revolve around them and for them to be successful in life (whatever form that takes). We all have to conform and respect others and live independently (*disability allowing). Small children need strong boundaries to allow them to thrive in our difficult world.

Gentle parenting is different to permissive parenting. Is your friend too permissive are you saying?

Maybe there’s a bigger picture in this boy’s situation/life you’re not seeing? You said his behavioral problems started when he went to school. Maybe he’s having a horrible time at school (do you know much about the school system and the national curriculum in 2025?)? Is he being bullied? Is he ND? Is he in school long hours ie wraparound care? So many variables to be able to comment properly.

I have some sympathy with this I must say. I have a 4 year old relative who is vicious and will literally hit you with a large heavy object if you dont capitulate to every demand or whatever the hell it is she is screaming about (which isnt obvious because she wont tell you). We're talking red mist and physical assault here by a 4 yr old. I am very firm and dont take any sh** however, she will not quit. Her parents are very nice, gentle parents but she runs rings round them and has lashed out at them to the point of drawing blood.
Personally, I think a tap on the back of the nappy wouldn't go a miss - more symbolic than anything - not an attempt to physically hurt but a warning to deter such behaviour which is out of control. Ive never seen anything like it and I avoid having much to do with her because of this volitility which often appears out of the blue.

Take your own advice love.

Its becoming increasingly hard to believe that this “friend” really exists.

Agree. Apparently primary school children are becoming more violent and more and more kids are being exluded from high school because of violent behaviour towards otjer kids and even staff.

Agree.

What thought process do you think that very young child will go through to equate being hit, with whatever it is she's doing at that moment? Do 4 year olds understand symbolic hitting?

Will she even feel a "tap on the nappy"? If she can't feel it, what's the point? Surely the parent will need to hit harder than that to get the point across. How hard should we actually be hitting 4 year olds in order to teach them that hitting is bad? Id like to know just how much force its ok to use on a small child. I presume that talking to the child about why we've hit them would fall under gentle parenting so do we talk to them or not?

Not for everyone it doesn’t.

why are you so cheerfully advocating the hitting of children?

So you are going to teach her not to be agressive..by being aggressive 👍🏻

Can you provide a link to the research on this?

The violent kids I remember from school were almost always the ones who were being hit by their parents. One could almost imagine that if you fail at parenting so badly that you resort to using violence to get your own way with your child, what you've just taught your child is that it's ok to use violence to get their own way with others.

Yes I was in school end of the 70s into the 80s and the violent kids and there was a fair few came from violent undisciplined homes.

In my experience of mine and close friends and family’s kids - NONE of us hit our kids.
We did have rules and strict boundaries, we definitely shouted or had a “tone”; there were certainly punishments; naughty steps; time outs; taking gaming consoles away for weeks at a time, ordered to bed (never no supper tho!!!) and clear firm and sometimes shouty explanations as to why these things were happening.
We all also did lots of nice things - supporting them always at shows, competitions, football matches, played games, lovely picnics, days out, movie nights, cuddles and clear explanations why rules were in place.
all of them are now in their twenties - out of about 30 young adults - they are all decent, working and not in trouble with the law. Not sure if we were gentle parenting - but we were never hitting or using physical abuse.

Of course she is past the nappy stage now at 4 (unless ND) but perhaps there are other strategies that could work. I'm not a fan of CP generally but I think when a child is lashing out a short sharp shock of some kind is needed.

My daughters are intelligent and sensitive people so it’s been easy and appropriate to be a gentle parent. I am a firm, no nonsense mum but I have always respected them and seen them as individual human beings - not just an extension of me.

People seem to fundamentally misunderstand what gentle parenting is.

I feel for some of the kids in these scenarios because it's obvious they are being let down by neglectful parents. Those kids then risk becoming the kid who doesn't have anyone attend their birthday parties or someone to sit next to them at lunch. It is sad. If a child is unpopular there is usually a reason why, kids can sense that.