Family holiday - been given a list of things we can/cannot do due to nephew’s ADHD/autism

[APATEKPHILLIPEWATCH]

Going away on a holiday abroad at Easter with my 3 siblings, their families and our parents.

We’ve been on holiday with them before and not going is out of the question as our parents are elderly and our kids are all getting older too so we want to take the opportunity to all enjoy the time when we can.

Separate accommodation. My nephew is 11 and has recently, after getting nowhere diagnosis-wise with the NHS and 2 private clinics, been diagnosed by a 3rd private clinic with autism and ADHD. This is after a long history of behavioural issues and other symptoms.

My sister in the holiday group chat has given a list of “rules” for us all, including our kids, about what we can and can’t do around nephew now that he has a diagnosis. She’s asked we all respect it so that it can avoid a meltdown. They include- no competitive games (my own kids are a similar age to him as are my other nieces and nephew). The kids like to do things like throw those little sinking toys into the pool and be the first to dive for it. No talking about certain topics such as school (he’s a school refuser) to him and have asked to share our own kid’s school stories about school away from his ears as it upsets him when he hears how other kids are getting on And no talking to him when he has “quiet time” - so for example he will ask for an hour by the pool to be left alone and we all have to respect it and brief the kids as well. This might be a struggle for the cousins as some are younger and will want him to play and won’t understand to leave him alone. When we go out for meals together we can’t eat outside as nephew prefers to eat inside.

I don’t really know how to feel about this. I myself have a disabled DS but with a physical disability and we’ve always tried to ensure his symptoms and needs don’t impact on others - we just ask people to be forgiving if we have to cancel things, but there’s certain things my DS sometimes can’t do or join in with and I’d never stop the other kids from enjoying what DS can’t enjoy.

Not an AIBU as such but how would you respond? I want my sister and her family to have a good time but I’ll be damned if I’m told I can’t eat Al fresco with my mum and dad (who love Al fresco eating too) whose last holiday it will probably be!

But OP didn't just specify they couldn't talk to him about it.
It's not to speak of school at all. Which is ridiculous.

I think with 4 families, including your parents, you can mix and match and not all do things together as one big group all day every day (which would drive me batty, anyway)

Suggest to DSis that he may be best to take quiet time indoors, go for a meal with your parents and eat outside. Adults take it in turns to go out on their own and leave the kids to the others.

How do your parents feel about all this?

It is probably in everyone's interests for his sensitivities to be managed as best as possible, without completely ruining your own hol.

Tell your DSis that it is useful to know what might cause problems and that you can all work to look after everyone;s interests.

But really - bagsing the pool for his sole use is not really reasonable at all. Suggest if he wants time alone in the pool that while everyone else is having breakfast might work? For example?

You must see that conversations don't work like that? I don't chat to my friends and think "right, now I'm going to talk about work." It flows. We'll be talking about food and somebody will mention the colleague who microwaved fish in an open-plan office or a work lunch where they got everybody's orders wrong, and they'll mention it. We're at work/school all day five days a week. It's going to come up.

I have one with ASD and i think this sounds ridiculous. He should not be allowed to take over the pool area so no one else can play there because he wants to sit quietly. He won't have a pool to sit quietly by at home so he can take his quiet time elsewhere - ie somewhere that is actually quiet where no one else wants to be.

Expecting everyone to eat inside because he prefers it is also ridiculous. What if all the other kids prefer to eat out? Why do his preferences trump theirs? If he wants to eat in then he can eat in quietly with his parents, no problem. It would be unreasonable to force him to eat out, but it is not unreasonable to want to eat outside sometimes yourselves.

I think no competitive games is ok - all diving in at the same times for a sinker sounds a bit dangerous anyway. They can easily just take it in turns to get it back. TBH though his parents should have been teaching him how to 'lose' since he was tiny, mine is not a keen loser either and will sometimes go to great lengths not to lose - but it was still something that he needed to learn and a lot of time and effort went into it. If this is just for the holiday to make it smoother then fine, but long term avoidance of the issue is definitely not the answer.

I would never have dictated to others how they had to behave to accommodate mine, suggested some things that really might help him perhaps, told others how they had to behave - definitely not! Mostly though I saw it as my job to know how to handle different situations so he could cope - and didn't expect others to change their behaviour.

Sounds like pandering to him....if he needs quiet time I would tell the kids to leave him alone but apart from that...

Third times the charm ey?

Honestly I would just tell her to suck it up. Her child has to understand that other people exist and asking for quiet time by the pool is beyond ridiculous. Are you in a private villa? If not, she's in for a shock.

I'm not sure why everyone else's holiday has to be focused around one persons needs?

If her kid needs quiet time, go to the hotel room. If he can't play competitive games, because I imagine he's dramatic and can't bear losing, then he doesn't play, he can play something else. If he can't cope with topics of conversation, go and talk to other people.

How is this kid ever going to learn how to function as an adult if his parents are trying to control everything and everyone around him?

I think quiet time and perhaps a designated room/space where DN can be taken to avoid a meltdown sound reasonable - but the rest? No. They are going to have to learn to help him navigate the world that he actually lives in, not the fantasy one where everyone who loves him (or is afraid of upsetting his mother) bends around him to create an artifically safe space. At the expense of their own MH and, in this case, everyone’s holiday.

As say that as the mum of two ASD/ADHD kids. It’s my job to take the brunt, my job to support and scaffold them into being able to survive it, my job to bend. No-one else’s.

That list was about making it easier for mum.

I’m quoting what the OP actually said about quiet time because people seem to be making it into something a lot bigger than is actually being asked

“And no talking to him when he has “quiet time” - so for example he will ask for an hour by the pool to be left alone and we all have to respect it and brief the kids as well. This might be a struggle for the cousins as some are younger and will want him to play and won’t understand to leave him alone.”

he is asking to be left alone not to have the whole space to himself. The main problem seems to be the Op being unwilling to ask her children to respect his need to be left alone.

That's not even in the same universe.
They can discuss their schooling with each other and tell them not to talk to him specifically about it.
But they don't get to ban the conversation completely.

You said it nicer than me. Thank you

I have 2 children with Asd and the only one I would request is when they need quiet time leave them alone, but I wouldn't be expecting younger children to understand the need. I would be gently trying to teach them if they approached during quiete time. The rest of the requests are unreasonable because the rest of the world can't adapt around him.

Maybe I’ve missed a detail, but is it a private pool just for your families? If not, how do they plan to deal with the other people using the pool?

Everyone needs and is entitled to quiet time. IN THEIR OWN ROOM. My son also has a physical disability and I wouldn’t set down rules like this for him. It’s fine for
their family not fine for yours. I think I’d do ok and just go out and do my own thing a lot. I think they have a diagnosis and are using it as an excuse to make everyone not judge not encouraging the kid to manage in a real world situation.

You’re wrong. I didn’t mention ignoring one person’s needs. Ableist?? My job is literally accommodating children’s needs. It involves making reasonable accommodations and communicating these. It does not involve centring one child to the detriment of all the others.

DS1 has ASD/ADHD and I have NEVER sent an arsey message to friends/family/teachers, because he has to learn that the world isn’t about to step aside to accommodate him. He takes his meds and he goes about his day.

I’d just reply “we’ll do our best “ and then wait.
soujds like the mum is over thinking, if child not in school recently she doesn’t know how child will react with other adults and kids around
then I’d just sit back and see what happens. I’d certainly say to kids that at times they leave child alone, and monitor that. But the rest will find its own way. If your mum and dad love alfresco, support them when they’re disappointed at restaurants and suggest some sit inside and some outside, I bet that soon change the dynamics - the child may be fine outside in warm weather, and a loving extended family around.
be gentle. Don’t say no. Just don’t spend time now trying to anticipate all the anxiety tour sis it er is sweating herself into.
if kid has meltdown, which they will I’m sure, then just deal with it. If their behaviour issues are such, then this will be so,etching they have to navigate continuously. Not your job to change your behaviours, but don’t tell her that unless it comes to head on holiday

To be fair,now diagnosed sounds like sis has a view of triggers and (improved)behaviour based solutions. On paper,it's all very well.in practice on holiday? Not so much.
I think she's probably proactively trying to adapt. maybe...try to be supportive but with a big scoop of keep it real.
Expect some turbulence tho

I’d probably reply to her “we’ll try our best!” and then just carry on as normal. You can’t expect children to avoid talking about school, not play games with any competitive element. If her child can’t tolerate those things then it’s up to her to plan alternative activities rather than expect everybody else to follows her rules to make it easier for her.

Well if you insist on going, you will have to tell sister you will be doing some things separately so that your families needs can be met.

I pity the grandparents stuck in the middle of this. How good are they with regards to telling DSIS they will be going to lunch at a beachside cafe with you because they want to eat outside? Will they wobble if she gets upset?

It all sounds like a disaster to me.

This is tricky...it's good she has gave you advance notice but you cannot be expected to police every conversation and behaviour for the other kids..my son is asd and doesn't cope with losing but I feel it's more my responsibility to prepare him for these situations and develop strategies to cope with a normal aspect of life - I don't expect others to never play games in our company. What are the others views in the group?

He could lie on his bed with his headphones for quiet time surely. He doesn’t need to be beside the pool I wouldn’t worry too much you just need to be aware of his triggers and his mom can remove him if she thinks a melt down is imminent. They are going to happen anyway. Her worrying won’t change that. Does he get violent though because that’s different that needs to be handled diplomatically. Just remember he isn’t like this to be difficult.

Wow some of these comments.

I don’t have an issue with the sisters request however a conversation is needed here. I cannot imagine the hell the sister has been through in getting a diagnosis and she has sent a note to the family essentially asking for support.

Quiet time needs to be negotiated somewhere other than pool. Yes he is in the minority because of his needs but don’t make sister/nephew feel that the rest of the family are resentful of having to accommodate to his needs. Just try & make it as natural & normal as possible.

Dinner indoors should just be a case of asking nephew whether he would like to join everyone outside or eat indoors with his parents. Don’t enable him by giving in to sitting indoors but take his needs and wants into consideration. He might just surprise everyone by sitting outside.

Your sister is navigating a totally different way of parenting and it may help her to see that she can relax a little and not be so rigid with the rules.

As for the not talking about school you can talk to the children about it but for her to be mindful that sometimes kids can just say things in conversation so might be difficult to police as such.

Re games try & plan in advance what games so the nephew can have time out elsewhere.

Lastly a conversation with the kids about their cousin is important so they can understand him and be mindful to his needs. It’s important for the cousin & nephew to feel included with the family. The little boy has got a lot to contend with so as a family it’s important to be there for him.

When you say "not getting anywhere" with the NHS and first 2 clinics, do you mean they assessed him and the consensus was he didn't meet criteria for diagnosis?

@APATEKPHILLIPEWATCH some of what they are asking for doesn’t actually make much sense from a asd/ adhd perspective eg. If a ND child needs quiet time , this is highly likely to be away from the other children making noise…so he should be going up to his room or moving to a quieter space ; a child who has specific needs around eg. needing to eat inside, is unlikely to derive much pleasure from eating in a big group, people often find larger groups and sensory stimuli too much ....so more than sensible for him and his immediate family to eat inside and you and your wider family eat outside or for both if you to take turns eating with your parents. I don’t think your diss is thinking about it in a wide enough sense.

Your sister should be the one who sits this one out. She is being ridiculous! What does she think is going to happen in life. Does she think she can ask school to accommodate her DS? Or his future employer? Or his friends? Or the general public?

I need some clarification on what exact your DSis means for a couple of her “rules”. I would respond in the chat to her, so there’s no way for her to claim I’m trying to ruin their vacation. Something like:

”DSis, I respect how difficult this is for you and your family and have put a lot of thought into how we can help accommodate your DC and still have the vacation we want. I won’t be forbidding my DC from playing competitive games, but will encourage them to take turns choosing what to play and giving DN a chance to choose something he enjoys. If he doesn’t want to play one of their games, he doesn’t have to and I will instruct my DC to graciously accept his no. I will share your concern about topics of conversation with my DC in an age appropriate manner, but won’t police their speech unless they say something untoward or unkind.”

Does “quiet time” mean he gets the space to himself or does it mean he just wants to sit to the side and not be bothered, but others are free to use the pool, etc…. If it’s the former, he needs to be instructed to take his quiet time in his or his parents’ bedroom. If the later, I would suggest instructing the kids that when DN is sitting on the lounge chair in the corner, or something similar, that means they need to leave him alone.

For dining, does she expect everyone to forgo eating outside, is she asking for a handful of meals shared indoors or is she explaining that everyone is welcome to eat where they like, but her family won’t be eating outside? No matter what it is, I would offer the compromise of a few meals inside with her family and the rest al fresco.

I have a feeling OP isn’t the only one balking at some of the “rules”. Ultimately, the vacation is for everyone, not just DN. DSis needs to realize that compromises need to be made and she can’t dictate everyone’s behavior. Offer sympathy and support if/when DN has a meltdown, but don’t agree to potentially ruin your family’s vacation over tiptoeing around him.