‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

"So essentially there is now a financial incentive to have a ND child or be ND."

Next time you have a baby you too can choose to have a ND one to get all the perks.

Every form of assessment or other screening process for a benefit comes with a cost to the State. PIP assessors cost the State money. Means assessors would cost the State money too. People with plenty of money will tend to look at the PIP assessment process (which is far far more onerous than the AFW assessment process BTW, in case you needed any (more) evidence of how the State privileges and subsidises employers over people) and decide that the time and effort isn't worth the money. The few well-off people who do claim PIP probably cost less than hiring an army of civil servants to do the means testing would.

I have no idea how people defraud the system.
My DD has Down Syndrome. I have to put in a claim every few years to show how extensive her learning disability is. It's not easy. The forms are extensive.

I don’t know that I believe that there is a vast amount of fraud, but I do believe that the threshold is far too low to qualify for assistance. We shouldn’t look to the government to iron out every wrinkle in our existence and level every inequity. I think there is a responsibility to prevent suffering, but I think it is fine to let people struggle to some extent, especially then ‘struggle’ is so loosely applied to any situation where someone faces challenges.

As someone with nd children I would 100% rather the money currently spent on individual support were redirected towards workplace and send support.

The reports from PIP applicants and the parents of SEN kids claiming DLA indicate that the bar for support is not too low.

1. People have lives outside of work and school.
2. A disproportionate number of disabled people don't work, either because they can't or because they cannot get past the discrimination "glass locked door". You would take their support away? That's ableist and cruel.

I was discussing this thread with my DH, who is disabled, last night. We came to the conclusion that there is definitely a strata of the population who think this way and see the disabled as, to borrow a phrase from the Nazis, "useless eaters".

And what happens to the people who are not in education or work?

@PandoraSox I'm sure you accurately relayed to your DH the presence of plenty of disabled people on the thread reporting our concerns with the current system...

@selffellatingouroborosofhate if someone truly cannot support themselves I have no issue with them receiving state support. I would greatly prefer a more robust and reliable system for those that cannot support themselves.

i am part of the send community and experience the duality of a) having next to no access to support while b) virtually everyone receives dla. I think a great deal of that dla money would be better spent rectifying the send provision so that more of our children are able to flourish in education and support themselves in adulthood.

In 2023-24, PIP totalled £18bn and that's projected to almost double to £34bn by 2029-30. That would mean the number of claimants rising from 2.7 million to 4.2 million.

Do you think this is a concern or not?

Those truly unable to support themselves should be supported (disability or otherwise), but we clearly need a much higher threshold for what that means.

I have a six page diagnostic report, with input from both my parents into that process. I also have my dad's meeting notes from when I was referred to ed psych at primary school because I was noticeably "odd" and withdrawn. Girls weren't diagnosed as autistic back then so ed psych missed my autism. Teachers I know socially have told me that they knew I was autistic within hours of meeting me.

But yeah, autism is totally diagnosed on "self-reporting". 🙄

Well yes, of course disabled people will have different views! He doesn't agree with your viewpoint.

I think the £111 billion pensions bill and aging population is a far far bigger concern.

But unavoidable.

Agreed. Unless anyone wants to tell me what else should be cut to meet the growing bill as detailed above?

You can though. I know a few people that absolutely game the system. My daughter’s friend, only 18, never worked due to anxiety and stress, fair enough but she manages to go out every weekend, travels to London several times a week to see her girlfriend etc If you can do those things then you can get a job of some sort . Another person I know has a son who has a minor kidney problem and autism. Again fair enough but he gets enhanced rate mobility and has a car, all lessons paid for. He travels all the time, independently to various sports events. There are two questions on the mobility part of pip - can you walk a certain distance?, yes he can, he plays football and does boxing. Can you make and plan a journey? Yes he can and does. Ive absolutely no idea how either of them qualify. I have another friend whose son had severe learning disabilities and a rare genetic disorder. She had to fight tooth and nail for pip mobility. None of it makes sense.

Does it have to be a choice?

PIP doubling in 5 years is alarming, both because of the direct fiscal implications of the bill itself as well as the implications for productivity and economic growth.

i also think a reduction in pensions benefits is pretty inevitable and probably overdue.

we have a benefits system that across the board is just more generous than we can afford.

How does your stance help the people who are forced to attempt to home educate their children because all the specialist schools are full and their kids can't cope in mainstream? Or because the specialist schools all say that they cannot meet the child's needs? Those kids have the greatest need but are outside of State education. Under your model, they get neither support nor money. At least with money, the income loss from the primary carer let's be honest here, the mother, leaving work to try to educate her child is mitigated a little.

well, in my system no one would be forced into home ed BUT there is funding specifically for EOTAS which would be more appropriate than dla for many students in the situation you describe

I will be a pensioner in 5 years after 49 years of work. I think I deserve my pension. We need more people to work.

The amount of pointless reassessments? In fact we should just go back to paper based assessments. I'm aware they did get some decisions wrong but don't remember so many people needing to appeal

Once again, I ask for clear, practical solutions to getting people into work if employers don't want to employ them? Unless of course it's transferring money to employers to make reasonable adjustments etc? Which still does not guarantee any applicant a job. Companies are structured to generate the most profit quickly and as efficiently as possible. Employees who can't be as productive due to fluctuating ability would undermine that profit. They would also incur extra administrative costs.

Unless of course we're just talking about inventing work for works sake rather than genuine mutual benefit or economic benefit.

Direct payments to those in need are cheaper in relative terms than administrating a more complicated system via employers.

It would be wonderful if gainful employment was truly seen as beneficial to both employees and the economy, but the economy takes precedence. Employees are seen primarily as economic units and their well-being is an afterthought, and their own issue to resolve. And that's an issue that needs examining right across the board.