‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

You do realise that having a diagnosis doesn't mean you are entitled to disability benefits right?
It's how the condition impacts you.

I know!

Less chance than ever of that given the new workers rights bill which will increase sick pay and make it much harder to get rid of people. Very few businesses will take the risk now.

@x2boys Why do you assume people don't know these basic things? It's simply a fact that people collude in online patient groups to make it easier to claim disability benefits. In some cases giving extremely detailed and specific advice on how to exaggerate, and even falsify, a claim to get points on PIP.

Getting out and about may help people suffering with mild depression/ anxiety andcits unlikely those people would be eligible for PIP anyway
It's not going to help people people suffering with major depressive episode
Also mental illness is fsr more than anxiety and depression,
Some people who suffer with severe and enduring mental illness, will never be able to work.

Very naive.

I get PIP, I scored points mostly on my mental health. Yes, I had to have evidence of goijg under CMH on my record, eating disorder clinic (never inpatient), etc.

But I didn't get that treatment/support/being under CMH because I was that unwell. I was refused treatment and support of the above nature for years, I almost died of my eating disorder because GPS could not give a flying fuck. It wasn't until I met my partner who pushed for it for me. In other words, I got the help I needed because someone made a fuss on my behalf. I was too unwell to do that for myself. I couldn't leave the house for 20 years. I still am.l too unwell to fight this shit.

Whether you have that evidence you mentioned for PIP is nothing to do with how unwell you are. It's to do with how much fuss you have made (or someone has made on your behalf) to get under CMH, to get referrals accepted. All you need to do is make a fuss and boom, you have enough evidence to get PIP. The key here - you don't need to be telling the truth.

It's very hard for genuinely mentally unwell people to get PIP because a lot of what you need if based on self advocacy... Which is really difficult when you're already unwell, and if you don't have someone you're screwed. I was in a right state and had ZERO medical care. I'm getting the help now, but only due to my partner pushing for it for me.

But you could lie out your arse and make a fuss for yourself and you'll get your evidence, if you were so inclined.

Mental health care is fucking rubbish. You only get somewhere when they need to shut you up.

And for the record, I work (from home) . PIP isn't an out of work benefit. Out of work benefits are either LCWRA on UC or ESA. And PIP does not passport you to them.

But it's not about having a diagnosis. PIP doesn't care about your diagnosis. They look specifically at your functional performance. You can have all the medication in the world meticulously documented by your GP, you still won't get PIP if you can wash and dress yourself and make some beans on toast.

Also, a lot of people with depression and anxiety have ASD. For these people getting out and about makes them worse not better.

The whole system needs to be reformed. Money for old rope in a lot of cases.

Because the pp said there was a large increase increase in mental health conditions and ND when benefits when disability benefits were extended?
And i know people make false claims I see it daily on a DLA group I'm on ,it doesn't mean they are successful though ,

This tbh. I was very poorly in my past, spent a long time in hospitals. I lost all confidence in my ability to work, everything i did I thought was rubbish and beneath my other colleagues.
Finding a flexible role and an employer that supports me professionally built my confidence and motivation, which in turn made my work ability stronger, simply due to a positive work environment. (I still do the exact same hours and work load as my colleagues, but I split the day and work through the night when I'm at my best so my work isnt effected and the same quality)

No one even knows my illness or past medical issues, other then my boss because due to adaptions it has no impact on work. (I will add i am much better in general, waiting to enter work once I was medically stable has also been a game changer, if I forced myself back early I would have become very unwell again)

Yesterday I saw a post on a fibro group.
A woman said her GP recommended going it for daily walks but as she had just been awarded PIP she was concerned that if she did that then DWP would find out and she would lose her PIP.
There are many genuine claimants but also some like I just mentioned who won’t push themselves to get better for fear of losing money.

Wherever there is a system, people will look to game it. It's human nature.

Because the 'evidence' is self reported symptoms/information that you have given your psychiatrist or mental health nurse. They have to take you at face value; you tell them your depression or anxiety is stopping you from getting out of bed/leaving the house, they can't say that not true. You tell them you're hearing voices, again they can't turn round and say no you're not.

“The system rewards people who exaggerate/lay it on thick/lie and penalizes the genuinely disabled. That's why it's so hard if you're genuine but so easy if you're not.”

exactly this - and even more it’s ’the system rewards people who know how to fill in the forms’. There is significant, organised abuse of this system by what are basically gangs

the really sad thing is that it really IS hard to get benefits or even navigate the process if you genuinely need help but aren’t fully knowledgable on the system or great at filling in forms. And lots of people aren’t. lots of scammers are great at it however.

This is why i dont tell anyone i get pip mobility and living allowance.
I said on another thread i look like everyone else but know one knows what i have to live with day in day out.

Its hard to get but it was straight forward for me i had all proof and evidence GP and support worker.

Why do they chase this stuff instead of the business tax dodgers.

Mental illness covers far more the anxiety and depression,.

As a healthcare professional, I can say, unfortunately a lot of people do try to game the system, and if they are well informed and persistent enough it does work. There are also a lot of conditions which are diagnosed entirely on self reported symptoms, it can be virtually impossible in some cases as a HCP to tell if someone is exaggerating or even outright lying if they are well educated enough to know the right things to say and do.

I'm well aware of this however I'm not about to discuss every illness listed in the ICD now, am I?

Exactly and this is helping no-one. Not the person with the disability/condition or society. There are websites that are making money out of helping people claim disability benefits! You have to pay for their courses etc. To my mind this is ludicrous and should be shut down. Genuine advice for those in need should be free, profiteering from it is disgusting.
Also some people go to A&E, are constantly at GP, adult social services etc, effectly making themselves a high intensity user and putting strain on these services to create a trail of "need" that is purely based on self reported symptoms. I've no doubt some of those people are indeed suffering and need help, others less so and are deliberately doing it to apply/maintain disability benefits.

PIP is not an out of work benefit.

How many times are we going to have to say this?

I am sick of the constant bashing of disabled and sick people on this forum.

Unfortunately some people do the game the system, not pip but I've seen DLA given to 4 kids in a family where they are very mildly autistic, all in full time education. Mum just doesn't want to work. She advises other Mums on how to get through the system. I've spent time with her children and there were zero signs of autism at all.

No but severe and enduring mental illness are much harder to fake

'@ColourBlueColourPurple · Today 12:23
Because the 'evidence' is self reported symptoms/information that you have given your psychiatrist or mental health nurse. They have to take you at face value; you tell them your depression or anxiety is stopping you from getting out of bed/leaving the house, they can't say that not true. You tell them you're hearing voices, again they can't turn round and say no you're not.'

More nonsense.

My PIP claim included evidence of referral to mental health services, being under the care of the Crisis Team for 3 weeks due to having a complete breakdown and suicide ideation as well of proof of long term medication being prescribed.

I think Mumsnet need to have a good look at to why so many ableist threads are being posted these days and people are making false claims that seem to come directly out of the Daily Mail type of rhetoric.