‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

Everyone I know who is ND and on PIP are claiming for several reasons, not just ASD/ADHD.
They were eligible before they were diagnosed because it was having a big impact on their life that it was causing MH problems and from that they went to to be diagnosed as ND.
Not a single person was diagnosed then went on to claim PIP. They were struggling long before then, hence why they went down the long path to get a diagnosis.

Autistic people mature with age, in the same way that everyone does. A child receiving benefit for the way they are affected by Autism may not become an adult needing the same level of support. My child received DLA, but as a 30+ adult works, pays taxes and is fully independent. They are still Autistic, but much more able to manage their own condition because of an adult understanding of it. I'm not saying all Autistic children change so much - I know they don't - but many do, especially given proper support when they are young.

Even lifelong conditions can have changes, especially from child to adult.

Is it ableism to suggest there's a greed factor to be taken into consideration? Here's a real-life scenario for you, someone I know holds down a full-time job, is able to travel on business, but claims PIP to help with costs of a cleaner. This the same person (they're single) who has several rental properties. Now, I don't begrudge the needy, but I'm not sure you can suggest this is a guy in need.

And before you strike me with the ableism card, I've several chronic illnesses, 2 of which would qualify me for PIP, have never applied as whilst it would be lovely to have extra money in the bank, it's not a need

@Toomanylosthours What is his health condition and how does it affect his daily life?

Yes but clearly the person that @TigerRag

Sorry pressed to soon the autistic person @TigerRag is referring to needs two carer, s ti go out and about that s not going to improve with age is it ?

This is what I mean. He's not going to suddenly wake up tomorrow and be safe enough to go out himself

I'm of course aware that life long conditions do change. I was born with one. I'm now 36 and it has really changed (not for the better) in the last 5 years or so.

Do your chronic illness, s prevent you from caring for your self, cooking and cleaning ,independent travel ?
If not you wouldn't be eligible.

What condition does he have, and what are his difficulties?

@Toomanylosthours I genuinely don't understand why someone like the person you describe would choose to claim! While it may be "free money" in a sense, filling out the forms is so depressing and demoralising. I hate focusing on how unwell I am. Someone earlier on this thread said they claimed PIP on top of working 70 hours a week! Again, I'm absolutely not saying that poster is actually wrong to claim as I know nothing about their illness, but it's just so strange to me as I don't believe I would ever choose to claim it if I could work.

@x2boys You're absolutely right about the Long Covid cohort, but that will only continue to increase. Society can't sustain an ever increasing number of claimants. At some point a recalibration will have to occur.

@LadyKenya Criticising the current state of the benefits system isn't inherently punching down. That's just a catchphrase that attempts to silence an opinion with which you happen to disagree. How can it be punching down as a whole if the same viewpoint is equally articulated by someone who doesn't claim benefits (a random poster on this thread) and by me, ie someone with an indefinite PIP award, the longest you can get? I can hardly be accused of being anti benefits when they are quite literally my sole income. But I do want a sustainable benefits system that isn't open to manipulation or abuse. Who would I be punching "down" at? I am "down" in this conception of things. This is why it makes no sense as a way of thinking about debate. We should just be able to discuss the topic.

At times yes they do,

At times cooking would be a luxury but then again so would drinking from a normal cup or mug without throwing contents everywhere. I can go for periods where i am not able to drive, where I'm a risk to myself around boiling water and hot ovens.

My point is.... do I need this PIP money? No, is it accessible yes probably as I've never applied.

Let's just say he has a condition which allows him PIP. .
Does he need PIP is what you should be asking

So essentially there is now a financial incentive to have a ND child or be ND.

If the 70hr week person used the additionally money to reduce their hours and improve their health I can see there's a genuine need. As this person is obviously short of cash to be working that many hours weekly.

I completely agree with your thoughts re: demoralising and depressing.

Why should I be asking? I don't know anything about him, or his difficulties. So how on Earth can I be judging whether he should be entitled or not? And for the 748948989489 time it is how his condition affects him in his day to day life.

I'll assume it's your disability that led you to inadvertently hit the numbers on the keyboard and take the approach you're not being condescending.

PIP is an assessment of needs as we are all aware. The need should include financial assessment. Now does he need the additional money... No, im sure he could sacrifice some of his luxuries or sell one of the rental flats. Does the person up thread working 70 hour weeks to potentially balance their income and pay bills need this money yes.

I've always had problems living with autism. Reprimands at work for talking to people the wrong way, struggling to cope with basic tasks like going to the supermarket, going shopping at 1am to avoid the crowds (which I now cannot do because 24 hour opening has stopped), being late all the time...

And it gets worse as you get older.

The diagnosis didn't change any of that, it just explained why and also made it clear that other people don't experience these struggles and it's not that I'm simply
not trying hard enough to cope.

It's no surprise that autistic people are being diagnosed later in life and no surprise that we are applying for PIP and other benefits to help us cope. To give an example of the kind of help PIP can pay for: you get diagnosed as autistic and suddenly realised that most other people can deal well with the noise on crowded trains and that you had a panic attack in Carriage F last week because you are disabled. You then find that there is money available called PIP that you can claim that you could use to help pay for a first class upgrade to arrive at work calmer and therefore do your job better, you'd be tempted to claim PIP too.

In my case, the benefit I claim is called "Access For Work" and it's paid to my employer to help fund coaching, specialist software and other work-related support for me. No one ever seems to have a problem with my employer receiving this money on my behalf. Yet if I claimed the same amount of money as PIP, I'd be criticised as a scrounger who "doesn't need it" because I can hold down a job and some people think that disabled people can't work.

It's clear from how the criticism of PIP isn't matched by criticism of AFW that people don't want disabled people to be supported to have a decent standard of living. That is pure ableism.

ND s a disability, however if you bothered to read the thread bot all people who are ND will be eligible.

The issue isn't him faking the issue is he can afford a cleaner. PIP should be means tested maybe? I say this as a disabled person on PIP who hasn't got a pot to piss in.

You can't just 'decide' to have a ND child though: so when you talk about an incentive that's doesn't make sense. An incentive only works where you can make a choice, it's something dangled to motivate you to do something. You cannot choose a ND child.

Oh, and not all ND people get disability benefits.

FFS, being ND can be utterly disabling. No one is choosing to be ND for money. You can't choose to be ND anymore than you can choose your genes.

And not all ND people will eligible for benefits.

Means testing would i believe assist with solving some of the issues. I appreciate its hard to Means test as some needs made me greater but there's factors that can be considered.

The issue certainly isn't him claiming PIP, he has a condition that allows him to. The issue is.... does he have a 'need' for it?!

1. How can something that is not a choice be incentivised? Would you talk about someone being incentivised to have asthma?
2. Being disabled costs far more than the PIP you get. PIP is a contribution towards the extra cost of being disabled that comes nowhere near actually covering those costs.