‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

But defence is more important than any single person, or any category of people. The first duty of the government is to protect the country. If it can’t do that everything else is already lost, include social welfare.

Which is not to say that it’s either/or, or that we shouldn’t strive for both. But if push comes to shove, defence is foremost. Always.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate we desperately need more and better specialist ed provision ( as well as proper support in mainstream ed for the many send children for whom that is appropriate) and that would be a better use of funds than much (not all!) of the current dla spend. It would be far smarter to properly invest in education so that these children have a better shot at living independently and supporting themselves.

Does it have to be a choice?

No one ever mentions pensions though. The press never mention the State pensions bill.

Which tells you that the endless headlines about "benefits scroungers", the PIP bill, etc aren't actually about the state of the national purse. They are about demonising a class of people. When you look at that in the context of the Bill to make assisted dying State-sanctioned killing legal, well, you need only look to Canada to see where that road leads.

These headlines are about softening the public up to accept the State-sanctioned killing of disabled people.

This. My DP is autistic and I have seen his diagnostic report (he was diagnosed before I met him). Also about 6 pages, and a lot of it is based on observations that the assessors made whilst talking to him. Not a lot of it was self reported stuff at all. He did not go in with specific traits/symptoms in mind, although he obviously answered questions about how noise etc affects him. He was just himself. His brother was interviewed too (parents are dead, and he had no school reports or anything).
He waited a couple of years to even get assessed. The wait time where we live is now 4 years. If these mythical people are seeking diagnosis so they can claim PIP, then they are going to be disappointed by how slow the process is going to be.

There was a very active board a few weeks back discussing the likely need to increase state retirement age - it is very much a topic of discussion.

it’s also a bit hysterical to jump from a discussion of reducing benefit expenditure to state sanctioned euthanasia.

Ah, the "deserving welfare recipient versus undeserving welfare recipient" fallacy. Your generation promised each other State pensions in retirement, starting at 65 for men and 62 for women, that would be funded by the workers of the future, not by yourselves saving into a fund. What right did you have to conscript the workforce of the future into paying for your retirements?

Meanwhile, my forecasted retirement age is 67 and will probably be 70 or later when I get there.

I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for disabled people, who didn't choose disability, than I do for old people who decided that a Ponzi scheme was a suitable way to fund pensions.

No one ever suggests reducing weekly pension payments though, do they? Or even stopping the Triple Lock.

There's a sacred caste here, and it isn't disabled people.

A quick look at just how many disabled poor people in Canada are taking the State-sanctioned killing route will tell you that I'm not being "hysterical" (nice misogynist slur there). The Canadian State killing programme started as well-intended "let's not let terminally-ill people suffer" as well...

But surely this questioning is about the impact it has on you, as PP have mentioned? The fact that You are able to converse enough to get by in day to day situations is relevant to how much support you need.

Eh yes they do, there have been many threads about this on here - take a look.

Agree completely, I’m appalled that after decades of tax paying our armed forces were being slowly eroded so in our moment of need they’re useless. But, ‘if we have money for war we have (even more) money for benefits..’

@selffellatingouroborosofhate It's absolutely ridiculous to jump to "state sanctioned killing".

Would a change of assessment methods save us £5 billion a year, do you think? Or pocket change?

The press don't suggest it though, do they? Any threat to pensions is met with outraged howling in the Daily Mail.

Read that link to The Conversation. Canada's euthanasia programme, dubbed Medical Assistance In Dying (MAID), started much as our Assisted Dying Bill has done. Then a "track two" was opened up. Next thing you know, there's disabled poor people who cannot make ends meet applying for MAID. That's going to happen here. We are already on that path. And the benefits bashing and disabled bashing in the press is to soften us up to accept it.

It would save a lot I mean 70% who go to tribunal win. There are people waiting over a year for their appeal to be heard

@selffellatingouroborosofhate I'm fully aware of MAID and I don't support how Canada has widened it at all, I think it's outrageous. But scaremongering in the way you are doing is a naked attempt to shut down criticism of the benefits system.

The appeals process costs money.

Every step of assessment adds an administrative cost to the State. There comes a point where the administrative cost is greater than the benefits saved by rejecting claimants. Hence why PIP is not means-tested.

Ok so I looked it up. DWP spend 28 million on tribunals. That’s less than 1% of the PIP bill, so no, it wouldn’t ’save a lot’ or even enough to cover a small % of the yearly increase.

If you are regularly reading the daily mail that might go a long way in explaining some of your misconceptions.

it’s discussion in the press will vary - there was lots of discussion around state pension reform in the autumn when it was hinted that the government was consider changes, much like there is lots in the media now around disability benefits due to hints the government is considering changes in upcoming budget.

the reality is that both are ticking fiscal time bombs that have been recognised for some time (pensions probably a longer standing issue), that need to be addressed, but are politically quite risky. We’ll see what changes actually come about - given this government’s track record it will most likely be a half measure that doesn’t fully address the issue.

Re your first para - yes they do.

You can criticise the benefits system without criticising disabled claimants. You can criticise the benefits system without accusing disabled people of fraud when those accusations aren't supported. You can criticise the benefits system without suggesting that entire classes of people should be barred from receiving PIP because you think ADHD can't be a serious condition.

PIP is based on need, not diagnosis, and is very hard to get. Unlike AFW, which was basically, "your employer wants money to help keep you on, what goods and services do you need to buy with it?"

I'm not joking: the PIP process is designed from an assumption that you are probably lying about needing stuff, whereas AFW is designed from an assumption that you are telling the truth about needing stuff.

The Assisted Dying Bill is very flawed and there now is a lot of concern amongst MPs about it. My prediction is that ultimately it won't get through Parliament. The whole issue will then be kicked into the long grass for a few more decades.

You are wasting your time. Certain posters will dismiss these stats, I'm afraid.

Yeah, there was a reason why I hid the entire AIBU board.

You dismissed mine - I’ve asked a few times now what you think of the projection and what we should cut to pay it?