‘Game the system’ disability benefits

[Tomatochocolate]

WTF
just read a bbc article about welfare reforms

Apparently ministers think that it’s an incentive to claim disability benefits as the incentive is no work commitments on UC. That claimants ‘game the system’

It’s a long process and really hard to get awarded dla or pip. It’s not just ticking a box that says ‘I’m too sick to work’.

AIBU to think this is just horrific

@richardosmanstrousers I'm not trying to control what you say, I'm pointing out that it's provocative and non contributory to cite your own child, ask questions about his situation, and then lash out and attack people when you receive an honest answer. Obviously if you want to continue doing that, you can. I have no illusion that I can in any way stop you! I just think it raises the emotional temperature in the thread and brings in hostility for no reason.

I'm not attacking anyone.

Let's just make that absolutely crystal clear.

Interesting that the person defending autism gets this kind of reaction though.

Yep, my daughter does have Down's syndrome. She's very able - 9 and a half with a reading age of about 7, is getting there with her writing, can do simple adding up - but does have issues with following instructions. I'd hope she will be able find paid employment in some capacity when she reaches adulthood, but I know realistically the odds are against her outside of specialised schemes.

Many of the people who have finally got diagnosed as ND late on - and are able to put together good enough PIP claims to be accepted - have probably spent decades "coping",scrabbling along in low paid jobs, and have spent years needing financial support, and the evidence accompanying the diagnosis process will have finally helped them to get what they need.

@richardosmanstrousers You're not "the person defending autism". That's a very distorted characterisation of the debate. I am autistic and talking from my lived experience of autism. I actually agree with you that Wildflowers isn't very familiar with the condition, but I reject the idea that unfamiliarity = ableism.

I await your rude response about how you don't CARE if I agree.

@curliegirlie Wishing the very best to your DD. I hope very much there will be good support schemes in the long term. I have a close relative slightly younger (who is not quite so able as your DD, but who knows what the future holds) so am very personally invested in provision for this sort of need.

I think "honest answers" is a bit of a disingenuous interpretation when those answers are clearly more based in opinion formed from limited experience or world view, and seek to impose it on someone explaining their reality and experience as it relates to them personally.

I'm still gobsmacked about the "leaning into mental health issues" in this particular context. It was a breathtakingly uninformed comment.

@MistressoftheDarkSide How do you think Wildflowers should have worded it?

Not knowing how autism affects someone doesn't make Wildflowers ableist, actually

This is quite true. Mere ignorance doesn’t make you ableist. But refusing to accept, acknowledge or believe that autism can affect someone so significantly that it disables them so they cannot work, or that they are ‘leaning into their MH’ (when autism isn’t a MH issue) absolutely IS ableist.

@HÆLTHEPAIN I see your point. I mean I definitely disagree with Wildflowers completely about the lad in question. But I still don't think it's helpful or even, frankly, within TGs, for someone to leap on another person's comments repeatedly and keep accusing them of being ableist. No one knows everything about every condition and how to manage/care for/support them. The reason this is angering people is because autism is common and Wildflowers is (imo) objectively wrong, so many posters are assuming she should know better. If it were a rarer condition, more grace would be given.

I don't think they should have worded it at all, frankly, as it overlooks that mental health in the context of autism is specific to both the condition and the individual, and applying such a sweeping and patronising generalisation is pretty ignorant and offensive.

Ah, this is such a goady reply.

I won't be engaging any further with you. But thanks for making your intent clear.

And I agree with this comment for the most part, however, IMO opinion, it’s always acceptable to call out ableism. And maybe Wildflowers would have been given the benefit of the doubt had she accepted what she was told by someone who had shared their experience of such a situation. Instead she doubled down and refused to listen.

I think some people do lean into their poor MH. I think in many cases it’s treated as a final diagnosis, ‘I have anxiety so that’s me done’. Like the man on the link up thread who has been on benefits for 8 years with no sign of going back to work despite according to him spending his PIP on therapy. Like I said I have OCD (diagnosed by NHS psychiatrist) so I understand mental illness but equally it isn’t viable for everyone on benefits for MH to be off for 10+ years - in many cases it seems people never go back to work. I’m yet to see a poster who said ‘I was on benefits for MH’ as opposed to ‘I am on benefits for MH and have been for years’.

I only used the tooth brushing as a small example to understand why completing tasks he is mentally/physically capable of isn’t an option. This is still something I don’t understand and I wouldn’t have asked about your son specifically but you kept bringing him up. I asked that question with no malice, I’m honestly trying to wrap my head around it. For example at the height of my OCD, I couldn’t make a cup of tea as I was worried I would put bleach in it instead of milk - I was convinced I would somehow harm somebody without realising. Luckily v well controlled by meds now.

@richardosmanstrousers Thanks for clarifying that your definition of "goady" is disagreement with you, even if the person disagreeing has an equally substantive stake in the debate.

Thanks @verysmellyjelly for understanding my position and bridging the debate somewhat.

@MistressoftheDarkSide Fair enough, thanks for outright saying so - aim not being sarcastic, I genuinely appreciate it when people actually say that just want a certain view not to be voiced! I find that much easier than trying to parse sarcasm and hints. Agree to disagree.

Honestly, I have really appreciated reading everyone's perspectives. Even when we have totally disagreed! Thank you to everyone who has contributed, no matter how heated it's been.

You don't need evidence. It helps your claim to have evidence but you don't need it.

@Wildflowers99

I only used the tooth brushing as a small example to understand why completing tasks he is mentally/physically capable of isn’t an option.

The point is rather that he is not mentally capable.

Tooth brushing is a bad example, as it doesn't apply here, but the same could be said for any 'task' - you are asking what is stopping my son from being able to work. It's his autism. He is not mentally capable. Learning difficulties are not the only reason someone would not be mentally capable.

I'm not very articulate, obviously, which is why I suggested using other resources to learn.

No you understand how your OCD affects you
I used to be a mental health nurse, there are some patients who have severe and enduring mental illness that will never be able to work many patients were in and out of hospital frequently .

The brushing teeth example could be for many many reasons. My daughter often needs supervision with that to a) keep her on task and from messing about in front of the mirror, b) to help her squeeze the right amount onto her toothbrush and c) to make sure she brushes all areas. For others, there may be related sensory issues. Whilst tooth brushing isn't immediately relevant to work, it's an example of how everyday tasks can be challenging, just like your cup of tea example.

What a waste of money, 11 million is going to schools to teach kids how to brush their teeth! What the heck are the parents doing? So its ok to throw 11 million away on some thing the parents should be teaching. But its ok to take away from vulnerable ppl barely scraping by.

I think we can do both. Poor dental health is linked to a lot of other health conditions and so the 11 million could save NHS resources further down the line. We have the money to do this and ensure disabled people are cared for.

You can send a DLA form without evidence but you aren’t going to get accepted, especially if you feel your child should get HRC and HRM.

I had to send mounds of evidence for my son to get HRC and HRM.

End of thread! Never mind, there are plenty of other benefit bashing threads for people to post on...seems to be the in thing on MN right now.