Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

I must admit I haven't seen that much of what you describe, and only occasionally, on Munsnet, but often people do seem to type on here 'in the moment'. Later on when feeling less disturbed they may think differently. It's a way of getting their irritation out in a neutral environment and doesn't affect the person who may have irritated or disturbed them.

Please don't take it so personally, I do understand how you feel but it's not meant, most people are kind but don't always understand.

But your 4ft8 80yo frail grandmother didn’t pose a real danger to your 6ft husband in the same way the 20yo man posed to the 17yo girl in the thread you mentioned. Also, the OP’s example of a toddler pulling an adult’s hair is not the same.

It’s unfortunate that the young man was put in a situation where he reacted by pulling someone’s hair (twice!!!). But if the girl or her parents had reacted by pushing him or screaming I wouldn’t have blamed them.

Totally agree.
People talk about hidden disabilities all the time on here. What they really mean is neurodiversity in their children. Most of the time this is at the milder end and so they grow up into adults who get married, have jobs and their own children. And they ignore that some children with disabilities grow up into adults with disabilities.

If over the 28th week of pregnancy the offence would be ‘child destruction’

Is this about the thread where 17 year old's hair was pulled by a fully adult man not once, but twice? And that's fine, because poor lamb has 'a hidden disability'?

Nah, fuck that.

I've been in a similar situation as a child and as an adult. When I was about 6, I was playing outside and was cornered by a man who lived in the neighborhood. He (and his family) were known around, mute (couldn't speak, but could do sounds, shouting, booing, hissing, etc), deaf and clearly with some learning disabilities.

He was maybe 19, maybe a bit older, me - 6. He cornered me and started sort of grabbing/pawing/groping me all over, making weird sounds at the same time. It was terrifying and I screamed at the top of my lungs. My dad heard and ran outside to me. He saw an adult man gropping his small child daughter, grabbed him and punched him to the ground, knocking him out. He knew he had 'disabilities' and didn't care. And thank fuck for that.

I was in a similar situation with my own DD and reacted exactly the same as my dad, as my response to shock is to fight.

Judging my MN, everyone and their dog is now autistic, ND, ADHD, dyslexic, dyspraxic, has anxiety and the list continues. Look, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. Control your kid so he won't touch mine. If you can't - I will. And if an adult 'issues' man isn't able to keep his hands to himself - he shouldn't be among the general population.

Nowadays there's so many people with so many 'rights'. I refuse to respect your rights if they infringe upon mine. Why should your son and his wellbeing be more valuable to me than my family's and my own? Ridiculous.

What about in cases where a pregnant woman has been killed and the murderer gets sentenced to two murders? Her and the unborn baby.

There's a difference between having no sympathy, understanding or compassion for the person with ND or a hidden disability and wanting to protect yourself and your children.

My nephew is autistic. For years, my sister was in complete denial about it. While he still a pre-schooler I met up with her regularly for playdates as my son was the same age. Her son would constantly hit, kick, punch and "scrunch" my son (y'know, that sort of grabby, scratchy, pinchy thing kids do with both hands) he had bruises, and he drew blood on more than one occasion. This was my 3 year old, my baby. What was I supposed to do? I had to protect him? So I told my sister we can't meet up with her anymore because all I was doing was putting my son into a situation where I knew he was going to get hurt. She was very upset and felt it was just isolating her son as she didn't know many other mums and was finding it hard to make friends.
At my house, he would have huge tantrums and pick things up and throw them. A precious ornament we were giving as a wedding present was broken, and he tore the beading off our back door which we had to pay to have replaced.
He also used to wet himself constantly. She refused to put him in any sort of pull up or nappy, just dressed him in light trousers so she could see when he was wet, and carried spare clothes with her. But this meant that I was having to sniff out where about he had pissed in my house, scrubbing my sofa or carpet, or the soft play staff would have to clear it up, and other kids had been stepping in it before she's noticed it.

I'm a caring person, I am, and I supported my sister to the best of my ability, but I'm human. Its very difficult to see your child getting hurt or your things being ruined and nothing seemingly being done about it. Like the PP that said an adult man slapped her two year old across the face and all that was there were two carers, who were unable to stop him. People are going to react with anger or frustration, no normal person is going to say "oh my baby just got attacked by a person with 10 times her strength and is creaming in pain, what a pity,.but I guess I should show total compassion for this huge hulk of a man and not react in any way that might seem discriminatory"

I think perhaps OP, you need to try and see things beyond your own experiences.

Re my laughing at the menopause comment - I laughed as I thought it was reference to me, which I found funny. Because I am indeed in the throes! Apologies, sincerely.

Exactly, people react in the moment. None of us can say how we would react in that situation until we're in it. People who said they would punch the person or scream and shout might just freeze and do nothing.

Violence isn’t acceptable regardless of cause. I would call the police if assaulted by someone with a disability as they are clearly a risk and need better supervision. The court diversion process would likely be used to ensure input from services.

What are you suggesting? That neurodiverse people have brain damage?

Also to add; this is not in direct reference to the hair twisting thread, although it did strike a chord with me. It is a post in general as to what I read and witness on a daily basis.

Sorry but there is a certain level of behaviour that should be expected of everyone. Violence is never acceptable. If the person doesn't have capacity then they should be kept away from the general public.

Same for behaviour in schools. If a child has SEND or behavioural issues and are disruptive then the classroom isn't the place for them. The needs of one child isn't greater than all the other students.

I read that thread about the girl getting her hair pulled, the carers were in the wrong. They should have been watching him better.
You can't blame people for reacting to being assaulted though, and like you said many disabilities are hidden.
How are we supposed to decide on the spot if the person pulling our hair is disabled to the point they don't know right from wrong.
I was shopping at a Primark Store a few months ago and a boy who looked around 19/20 grabbed a woman's breast, she started screaming, two carers who were at the other end of the shop run over and tried to explain that he was autistic and it's just a "thing he does" The woman phoned the police and he was arrested, the carers phoned the boys mum who turned up and went to the police station with him.
No idea if he was actually charged but again this was the fault of the carers.
He should never have been put in a situation where he could behave like this, but the woman has the right to go shopping without being groped.

I think some carers are a bit wishy washy at times. There was a thread yesterday about a man pulling a young girl’s hair. His carer appeared minutes later and got him to eventually let go, so it was her fault. She should be there immediately to keep him and other people safe.

One day he might pull someone’s hair, and he’ll get punched to the ground by a very NT person who knows exactly what they are doing. The irony.

I am not aware of any case in England where this has happened.
The person can be charged with other offences, and this may be wrongly described by the press as a murder charge. Usually causing an illegal abortion.

Criminal Law and The Life of the Unborn Child - MPR Solicitors secure acquittal of father charged with assault to procure a miscarriage - MPR Solicitors LLP

I haven't seen the thread about hair pulling, but worth pointing out that there's no rule saying only one person in any given situation can be ND/have a hidden disability. My ND child couldn't be relied on to show much understanding if that had happened to them, regardless of the level of culpability of the aggressor.

Although I agree, being a carer can be a shit job. I have cared for non verbal autistic adults. It is minimum wage and carries a lot of responsibility and requires a high level of skills to do well.

Those who say everyone must make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to tolerate their child with hidden disabilities often ignore the fact that some of those they are demanding make those adjustments have hidden disabilities themselves. That one child’s vocal stim is intolerable to another child, that outbursts and meltdowns in class leave other ND children in a constant state of anxiety, that a child who is ‘only hugging you’ is causing huge distress to a child who finds such touch painful.

You're completely wrong. Some presentations of ASD do involve things like pulling hair, or even just touching other people. I'm autistic and part of it is that I have a violent reaction to other people touching me - I have to really, really work hard to not have a full-body spasm at unexpected touch; it mainly involves clenching just about every muscle in my body, all the time, when I'm around other people. If I'm low on social battery, or really physically exhausted, I can't do that and it can result in people getting hit by accident (not punched, just caught by a flailing limb).

Similarly, Tourettes doesn't just involve verbal tics, it can easily involve physical tics like slapping (see Sweet Anita on YouTube for an explanation of this, and there are even a few videos where she shows this happening).

It's usually managed by trying not to put ourselves in situations where it might happen, and (if we can't avoid them) warning people not to put me in a position where I can't stop it happening - ie not creating the initial conditions where that kind of reaction is likely to occur.

The key point here is agency - I have no agency when it comes to my reaction to touch, it's not something I can control or stop once the precipitating event has occurred. What I can do is avoid crowded spaces and warn people in advance so that they can avoid making it happen. If they ignore that warning, then...there's nothing else I can do to stop it.

That's fine for those of us who are able to communicate, and willing to accept that there are some things we'll never be allowed to do (I can't go to pubs, or concerts, or sports events, or even walk down the high street when it's busy) for fear that somebody's going to call the police and we'll be arrested (which presents a whole new set of problems).

What do you propose should be done about those who can't communicate, though? Shut them away so that "normal" folk don't have to see them? That was the norm up to a couple of decades ago, and it helped nobody.

Oh ok thank you. Yeah I'm wrong I've been watching too many American true crime documentaries (and even so then its only second degree murder for the unborn child and first degree for the mother)
At pp was right, its child destruction.

Same for behaviour in schools. If a child has SEND or behavioural issues and are disruptive then the classroom isn't the place for them

There is no alternative in most cases. Specialist provision is bursting at the seams, EOTAS is limited and expensive and not all parents can/want to home educate.

Carers managing adults with challenging behaviour are supposed to be trained to avoid situations like some of the ones described, long before they happen by recognising situations that will cause the service-user to behave in a certain way, or by assessing the bigger picture and knowing everything else that has gone on that day, or that week and might be bubbling under the surface, meaning a meltdown could be imminent.
The toddler-slapping man should not have been near that toddler unaccompanied. It shouldn't really have been a case or needing to restrain him, that's always a last resort, it should have been prevented entirely.

Unfortunately, care and support services are often run as money-making businesses and those that work as carers, or support workers are often underpaid, undertrained, and undervalued, which in turn leads to high staff turnover and under experienced staff coming in. They'll take the youngest, cheapest workers first.

Agree. Neurodiverse people do not have brain damage. There is zero research to show that their brain is structured any differently to anyone elses brain.

The initial discussion wasn't just about physical harm. It references stimming, noises AND lashing out. And lashing out doesn't have to be at a person. It could be whacking a fence with a stick.

You would never get a conviction for any of those and yet some individuals on this thread take offense to being stared at by someone with SEN.