Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

I was assaulted at work( many years ago) by a young adult male. He grabbed me from behind , so obviously took me by surprise, and put his hand/arm around my neck and started to strangle me. It only last a few moments but really shook me up. His carers just casually wandered over and guided him away without any kind of apology or explanation. Of course it wasn’t the young man’s fault, but I deserved an apology from the carers, just as much as he deserved a right to his day out. It’s never ok or acceptable to assault anyone .

It might have done, but the teacher was caught between a rock and a hard place. I would imagine that this boy was the subject of many discussions in the staff room. I am not justifying abuse in any way, shape or form. The fact that the event has stayed in my mind for over fifty years shows how rare it was. What l am saying is that everyone had tried their best under very difficult circumstances and nothing had worked. The boy was much happier in a specialist setting. Don't forget that the population as a whole was much more conforming in those days and corporal punishment was allowed. Primary school teachers could and did slap the legs of naughty children - the same with parents. We knew no different. I am not justifying the punishments of fifty years ago; simply trying to explain how schools and society were half a century ago. Some things are definitely better now, others not so much. On the whole, children were infinitely better behaved then because we had strict boundaries - vital if you are a teacher with no adult help and forty children in your class. Mostly, we were happy and appreciated how much more fortunate we were in many ways compared with our parents' and grandparents' generations. We are discussing hidden disabilities. It is definitely better now that we are so much more aware, but no disability should be excused if someone else is getting ĥurt. I have brought up an autistic child. Rules were even more important for him than our other children. NT children are as capable of behaving badly as any other child and it is certainly not always because of their disabilities. I think we do everyone a disservice by always excusing bad behaviour because of disabilities. It is not fair on the child themselves because their development is held back and it is certainly not fair on all the other children, who become resentful at the preferential treatment the child is getting in their eyes. In the long run, it could well put back the progress we have made on the understanding of disabilities over the last few decades.

This did not come at the top of my last post, but I have replied to it in the post.

The sort of situations you’re describing don’t really sound like hidden disabilities OP?

"His carers just casually wandered over and guided him away without any kind of apology or explanation."

The carers would have been trained to manage the situation in that way - getting the man away from it as calmly as possible. Of course it was distressing for you but standing around giving explanations could have made the situation worse. Hopefully what occured was reviewed by the carers/ their agency.

Well said OP. Reminds of the constant threads on here about why.doesn't everyone drive / work or in fact lead the perfect mumsnet life. And Gid forbid a woman is ever wring!

If they couldn't protect or apologise they should not have been there

"If they couldn't protect or apologise they should not have been there."

As I said what happened should be taken very seriously and those responsible for his care should review how he managed.

No sensible carer is going to stand around giving apologies in that situation.

They shouldn't have been out

They should have been formally investigated - what went wrong

Assault is assault no ifs or buts
Enabling assault is assault

If they couldn't look to the victim things had gone seriously wrong

@Violinist64
There’s quite a lot to unpick here and I’m honestly not sure where to start. You are of course justifying and minimising the abuse of a disabled child. Many of us posting on this thread will have experienced of education in the 70s or even before. Still more will have experience of children with neurological differences. We will know what it is like to be overstretched and know there are days when we could have chosen better. To be very clear nobody is suggesting that specialist provision isn’t the only option for some children. However the fact your primary school teacher abused a disabled child in your presence and he did better (if he did) in another setting away from his abuser doesn’t really support all children with behavioural issues being treated that way. Frankly if she’d been tying you to a chair after various other options then I think you would have looked happier in a specialist provision, wouldn’t you?

I think we do everyone a disservice by always excusing bad behaviour because of disabilities.
I don’t think anyone has done this.
it is certainly not fair on all the other children, who become resentful at the preferential treatment the child is getting in their eyes
no one is experiencing preferential treatment. It’s actually really very rare that children don’t understand this situation. They tend to be much more accepting of disability than their parents who didn’t benefit from inclusive education and remain somewhat limited in their understanding.

"They shouldn't have been out
They should have been formally investigated - what went wrong
Assault is assault no ifs or buts
Enabling assault is assault
If they couldn't look to the victim things had gone seriously wrong"

I am not sure who all the theys are in this post but if an incident happens the carers have a specific job to do. It would usually be getting the person they are supporting away from the situation calmly and quickly. If they engage with you, this delays that and the situation could escalate.

So the person who has been assaulted should just do what?

Carers should at least leave contact details so any negligence on their part in allowing the assault can be investigated.

Edit: and / or social services contacted to see if a further assessment needs to be carried out

@Itisbetter, if you read through the whole thread, there are several people, including the op, who minimise the impact of the assaul

"Carers should at least leave contact details so any negligence on their part in allowing the assault can be investigated."

When someone is potentially agitated you don't stand around having a conversation with others.

People are of course free to call the police about the incident.

Loving the empathy towards someone who has been strangled here.

And how will that help if the victim can't identify the person who attacked them? Surely the carer should have to give them some sort of contact details or are victims just expected to put up and shut up?

That's an appalling attitude - people with learning disabilities can and do commit physical and sexual assaults. Carers just walking away from an assault is totally unacceptable. If they can't prevent unpredictable assaults on members of the public then no, they shouldn't be taking the individual out in public.

That scenario could easily escalate - to the injury of the individual with LD and possibly their carers too.

Sorry. Pressed too soon. The op: "it's one of his stims." Other people , both children and adults who have been hurt by disabled people.. One lady was told to send her child to another school because she was facing daily assaults by a disabled child and the school is too ineffectual to help the victim and do something about the problem. The world has turned upside down. I gave an anecdote about something that happened a very long time ago. Whether or not the teacher was abusive is immaterial at this late stage and I would imagine she is long dead in any case. As far as I know, nobody was traumatised for life - we were more resilient then - including the boy in question who was much happier in a setting more appropriate to his needs. I still think that the teacher in question was terrified that someone was going to be badly hurt and was doing the best she could under intense pressure and those particular set of circumstances.

In the middle of an incident carers need to do what is safest for the person they are working with, for themselves and for those around them. It doesn't mean that other agencies won't become involved and yes sometimes the agencies will involve the police themselves.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here? Minimising assault or neglect or abuse is obviously not a good thing.

There are levels where the person isn't going to have the ability to control hitting.
Do you also have no understanding of why a scared person with dementia may hit?
Obviously it's case dependant, but especially with non verbal disabilities hitting is a quite natural fear reaction.

Imagine being unable to communicate properly, being overwhelmed scared and not having much or any ability to remove yourself from the situation. Hitting out is a communication to back away. It's not likely to happen unless you are the carer or in their personal space either.

Obviously behavioural issues where there is a higher level of development is a different story, but there are definitely situations where hitting out would be understandable.

If your child is being assaulted repeatedly in the care of anyone you must of course remove them from that situation if it cannot be fixed so they are safe. What other option is there?
The world has not “turned upside down” and violent children are removed from schools regardless of their able/disabled status. That’s because the violence is the issue not their disability. We don’t tie children up at school (or hit them), and people who do that shouldn’t be in education.

I do grow weary of all this nonsense.

The perpetrators should be removed not the victim !

I guess if there was a problem perhaps parents could coordinate and no kids go in except the violent child ?

But if no details are left how will the police / agencies know who to contact?

You can’t have people going around trying to strangle others, regardless of disability / level of understanding. Obviously there is something not working in the safeguarding arrangements that needs to be addressed and I think the victim would be reasonably entitled to expect it is.

Nobody needs to put up with being assaulted regardless of the level of their understanding or that of their assailant.