To be worried about sending DD to school

[Journeyintomelody]

Increasingly I am starting to think the pros of sending DD to school no longer outweigh the cons. 5 years ago, homeschooling was not on my radar. I hadn't considered anything other than mainstream school for DD.

However, I am seriously worried about the state of UK schools to the point where I am starting to explore other options. The school system goes against pretty much everything I believe in. I understand how important the social aspect of school is, but, I am also worried about some horror stories related to worsening behaviour.

Am I being completely unreasonable?

I would be interested to hear the experiences of parents with children in reception, year 1 and 2 and also from parents who homeschool. Is mainstream school as bad as the media makes out?

Private is not an option for us.

Note: DD is neurotypical, no additional needs. She's bright but not exceptional - just a happy child.

I think that’s two different things.

My children’s school rewards effort, perseverance and trying hard. As it should.

It also celebrates achievement, academic and otherwise, which again is as it should be.

Doing what is expected though is no bad thing and I don’t know why you wouldn’t praise that. Assuming by that you mean behaving appropriately, following school rules, being considerate of others - exactly the sort of thing required for a society to work. Yes, sometimes they should “trust their own ideas”, but often people (adults as well) just need to accept rules and boundaries for everyone’s good. And sometimes children need to learn that however great their idea is, English spellings are just a set particular way that has to be followed and that multiplication only works one way.

Exactly. Why do you need to have a certificate to say you attained grade 8 piano? You could spend two terms going over the same wretched 3 pieces. Or you could play because you love it. I really don't understand it.

Why do you need a medal to run a half marathon? Whats the point? Just run the marathon and feel good. Why do you need someone to say well done? Why do you need a certificate to say you swam 100m? Just swim 100m. Why do you need a badge to say you baked 100 cookies - just do the things. I really don't agree with that culture.

There is a difference between needing validation to do something and having the confidence to do something without needing to be validated.

That said, there is a place for testing. That isn't validation in the same sense. Its not a pat on the back, well done. Its an insurance, its necessary. Same with work appraisals - again it depends. If they've got something constructive to say about how you can improve it benefits everyone. That's fine. think an appraisal is a waste of time if its just a pat on the back, I'd rather be doing my job.

I don't think that is pretentiousness. It's just my view (a strong, and controversial one).

I should add this comes from someone who was raised as a people pleaser. I got all the certificates and the badges, and the grades. It ended in an eating disorder and fear of failure. I think like all parents, I want to shield my DD from some of the heartache I experienced as a teen and young adult. So yes, I will always praise effort over achievement.

Please don't mistake my passion for confrontation - I feel strongly about this, but its not meant as a personal attack or retaliation. :)

You’ve explained my thoughts far better than I ever could! 100% this.

I want to shield my DD from some of the heartache I experienced as a teen and young adult. So yes, I will always applaud effort over achievement

She’ll be very confused when the rest of the world doesn’t do the same. You’re hugely projecting your own issues onto your daughter.

In infants I don't think focus is on attainment at all. It's on behaviour - can they play collaboratively, can they share, can they treat others with respect, can they express their ideas clearly. It wasn't until year 3 than my oldest got any sort of marks, and even then it was a very broad summary of strengths and areas in need of development.
They do a have a points system, but the points are for "good manners' 'tried their best' 'helped a friend'. And the only people who know the points are teacher and child's parents, they aren't shared widely, it's not competitive.

Ultimately the person a child is most interested in 'pleasing' are their parents, it's their approval they seek the most, and I see school as a place where my children can be free from my expectations, and develop as their own person outside the watch of the person whose opinion they seek the most.

There are many valid reasons for home schooling, especially for those whose specific needs are difficult to meet in a mainstream classroom. But home schooling will mean your child being majority of time with the person they have an innate need to please the most - it's a survival tactic children are born with.

You need to go to schools and see. Our local is lovely, no tests and no typical homework (daily reading and term projects), focus on sport and outdoor time etc. it's doing very well. Also in the village we have a small no fee independent school that is a forest school vibe, don't know much about it but kids that go there seem to love it. I think you need to look around and find one that matches your ethos and what you want your child to get out of school, but homeschooling done properly is also a fab option.

I disagree with your first point completely. there is immense satisfaction towards working for a goal and achieving it. I appreciate some people thrive in that sort of environment and some don’t but suggesting that just playing the piano is enough for everyone is wrong. My children have got so much confidence from doing music exams. Not only is there the working towards a goal, there is the being alone and only reliant on yourself aspect to it. I think my son had taken about 10 music exams by the end of primary school and he was completely unphased about any sort of testing and being in a pressured situation. He also failed one exam as we had rushed it a bit and he picked himself up and retook and got a merit. They teach a lot of resilience as well as skill. It is not just ‘external validation’.

Horror stories? Against everything you believe in? What exactly are your local schools like?

You'd have to give up work to homeschool and you're not a qualified teacher. I can't imagine why you'd want to do this.

Ok, thanks. You didn't have to be rude though. I'm 99% likely to send my child to school. But I have concerns. I was half hoping that people would respond saying 'that's not my experience'. I know there are some great schools. It is useful to hear other people's experiences, and reassuring to know that some of the horror stories both in the media and on mumsnet are broadly hype. Sounds like you found a really good school for your child.

This is like being against responsive parenting because the 'real world' won't cuddle you when you're upset. And yet, all studies show that children who are consistently responded to when they're upset become more confident adults.

External validation is a totally different experience as an adult compared to a child - when a child goes through the school system being constantly externally validated, they inevitably begin to disregard their inner drive for learning and start to only do what is expected of them, and often only the bare minimum. And often become perfectionistic, avoidant and anxious. Sadly, it's a genuine, increasing problem.

I have been tutoring for years - hundreds of students.

I think personally it's worth giving school a go.We are really lucky to have free education for our children in the UK and it would be a shame not to utilise that unless you had a clear reason not to.

As much as I don't think schools are perfect (not enough 'hands on' or outdoor learning and still too many expections around compliant behaviours) if your child doesn't have significant SEN and you choose a good one that is nurturing and flexible, I think it would offer your child many positive experiences- routine, socialisation, communal events such as school plays, sports days etc are often really enjoyable for them.
I would likely be the sort to be referred to as 'that parent' but I have actually been pretty impressed by our local school which my 7yo DD attends, and she has SEN aswell.
You always get afew odd minor issues and staff who aren't as understanding with children's needs or feelings as they should be, but as long as things get sorted and they are understanding when you raise any concerns that's the main thing.
I also go in alot of primary schools for work, so I do get the inside scoop with them too and I would say they are generally pretty good.

Secondary schools however...don't get me started!! Dreading that time already.

Have a go at teaching your child first. You may find the reality rather different to your idea of home schooling. After forced homeschooling in lockdown, I take my hat off to anyone who does it and I have a teaching qualification. Your own child is very different.

Early primary is very play based.

I don't really see what you would lose by seeing how she gets on at school.

This is exactly what I meant, only you said it better than I ever could!

But nobody is saying not to respond to an upset child

I feel like you’ve analysed yourself and are now swinging the pendulum too far the other way for your child. Saying ‘well done’ is not going to result in anorexia. The factors at play during your youth will be completely different to hers.

Your child is not you and will have a different life experience than you including school. If you imagine what job you’d like her to do in the future chances are she’ll need to pass some qualifications to do so because honestly there’s not many options for people with no qualifications. If she doesn’t work and have financial independence she could get caught up in an unequal relationship. I think it’s strange that you wouldn’t go and investigate schools before ruling them out.
I also worry that you don’t have the skills and knowledge to teach the breadth of subject knowledge you’d need to teach her all the way through to secondary school level. Without the primary education subject knowledge she would struggle at secondary.
obviously you’ll do whatever you think is best for your daughter but please spend some time in schools before deciding.

I definitely didn't think homeschooling would be an easy option. And double hats off to any parent who had homeschooling forced upon them whilst trying to navigate work during an uncertain and isolating time. As I said, I probably will send DD to school, but I do have concerns, I feel like schools have changed A LOT in the last 10 years so it's helpful to hear from parents who are going through it now, rather than basing it on my own outdated experience or relying on media and accounts from disgruntled teachers.

I have a DD in yr1. She hates going to school but always comes out happy and smiling. She is bright and has learnt so much since attending school.

Her school is lovely, headteacher greets them all at the gates each day and knows them by name. I feel they have a fair reward system not based just on academic achievements and I have felt them very accommodating whenever I have needed to speak to them about concerns about my daughter. They have been supportive putting things in place when needed.

If I had one tiny criticism I do think homework, spellings, two reading books and sometimes a sheet to complete about the book per week is a bit overkill. If not for the child but for the parents squeezing it all in. I have never not bothered though so not sure if there's any consequences if you don't. I do like that they are passionate about reading though.

For me, the social side of being at school for DD is very important.

fair comment. But an understandable pendulum swing. Perhaps I should reflect on that.

Homeschool 100%. My daughter wasn’t able to explain why she hated primary school so much when she was young because she wasn’t really old enough to understand what was normal and what was a bit crap. When she did share some stories with me I was angry, things like the teacher putting her desk next to her bully and rolling her eyes and doing nothing when my daughter asked to move. It led to a whole host of anxiety induced illnesses. If anything I would homeschool in primary school more so than highschool because at least in highschool they are old enough to tell you what’s going on.

I think school has offered dd a variety of relationships, which she’d have been lonely without. Dd loves to learn, is an avid reader. Yes could be a bit switched off by some subjects. But mostly thrived. Worked harder for the subjects she was interested in. Was often springboarded into reading more. Didn’t do anything extra for SATs. It was a minor test really. Worked harder for the for her GCSEs and A levels and achieved a good university place. Still reads, still loves to learn. I think she would have found it a bit dull learning on her own from home. I guess it depends on the dc.

I’m not a fan of the English education system, but it’s what we have so it’s what we have to work with, unless you can afford private.

screen time - every school is going to have this, seriously, how do you expect children to keep up with the world we live in without it. Primary school, In my experience do not actively encourage this so much, especially in KS1

SATs are absolutely ridiculous, but they are a measurement of the school not children, this is what I have always told my children. There was no pressure put on mine, I have one doing them this year. I made it very clear to the school that the moment I felt the school was making any of my children feel pressured I’d be pulling them out for SATs. Two children down and I have never had to follow through on my threat.

We don’t do homework. Regular homework was stopped about 5/6 years ago and now it’s half termly and on a voluntary basis. Pre that if it was done it was done. But I think we’ve done it twice since it went half termly.

i don’t think my DDs got spellings till year 2, we worked with our oldest but slacked off with 2 & 3 and they are fine.

We don’t reread books over and over unless DDs want to. We ask for new books and get them.

What do you mean potty trained? Is your dc young and will not be toilet trained by school starting? I know there have been a few children not fully trained at my DDs school. Plus worse case scenario, if your child is young you can defer them or just wait until they turn 5 to start them. It should absolutely not be down to schools to potty trained children. I never rushed mine but they were all toilet trained by reception, even if in pull ups at night.

If your in a position to home school, dose that mean your in a position to move to find other schools.

Every school is different and this is absolutely based on the schools leadership. My DDs love school, love learning, nothing has been squashed out of them.

i do think you are thinking the worse and listening to all the negative stuff.

Post in homeschooling and you will get more useful and less politically motivated answers.

Homeschooling is on the rise and there are a lot of hubs around. I don’t know much about them, but there are undoubtedly children who are well educated and sociable who don’t go to a normal school. Most parents need to work and quite enjoy some adult time during the school day, so it’s not for people like that. You need to be honest with yourself about whether it would suit both you and your child.

My dc got into a primary just outside catchment, even though there was another one closer to us. It just depends how oversubscribed they are that year, you may well get into that one.

No, school is not what the media makes it out to be, just like home education is not what the media makes it out to be. I don't think it can even with the best will in the world, it would always give a weak representation, and that will is not really there with the media more fuelled by what gets them paid.

I home educated my children for primary. I've also been a school governor while home educating, and have had secondary age kids who chose at different points to be home, school, and mixed educated. One of my kids now works in a primary school. All types of education have their pros and cons, benefits and risks, and gaps are inevitable.

The idea of kids being all born curious and loving learning and just need support is lovely - and unlikely to get you through the hard times, which will inevitably happen. I have kids who never went through a why phase, were perfectly content to just take life as is most of the time. I had to deal with the issue of everyone recommending to teach certain things when they ask, and figuring out how to manage when they never do. Lots of kids do not care to learn about basic skills like spelling or body care. I'm under no illusion that my kids did their literature or maths for any reason other than I required it and it was their habit to do so, even when they had a say in the curriculum we used. Part of educating is helping them understand topics and skills that they have absolutely no love or interest in learning and getting them into the routines and habit of learning even when they find it hard or just unfun. When home educating, all of that and more is our responsibility.

Sure, follow the pro-home educator advise to look into your local groups, but also look into homeschool recovery and similar spaces (to read, not to get validation from) to see common pitfalls and the pain those cause. My child who absolutely loves working in a primary and works with the ages you describe doesn't recognise what you're talking about. She will also say she's glad she didn't go through primary from what she's seen in her work - school is very hard for many autistic kids with the current push to mainstream and fulltime asap & my kids benefited from having more time before dealing with that - but she also sees the positive impact she can have for children like she was and the joyful experience they have that we discuss could not be replicated outside of school. At times she is sad that she doesn't have the primary friends that some her colleagues have - she is not friends with anyone she went to a home education group with, and will openly discuss that she doesn't think she was ever really friends with them, not really, she wasn't treated the way a friend should, but proximity and the very human desire to want those connections even if they weren't the best. That risk of external validation leading to issues is a risk no matter what type of education is happening, it's part of human nature, we evolved to co-regulate and those relationship skills are a continuous ongoing learning process.