AIBU to have not reacted when my daughter’s hair was grabbed, twisted and pulled by a non-verbal autistic man.

[SillyOldBucket]

At the weekend we visited a National Trust venue and stopped at the café for some lunch. My husband and one teenager daughter were sitting outside while I and our other 17-year-old daughter, who has long very blonde hair, joined the queue inside. I was standing just in front of her in the queue when I became aware of a boy/young man (I would guess aged about 20) beside us. He had his face up close to my daughter and was smiling at her. Initially, I thought it was someone she knew from college or her Saturday job but then all of a sudden he grabbed her hair, twisted it tightly around his hand, and was pulling very hard. I quickly realized that she didn’t know him and that he was non-verbal, probably autistic. However, I then remember that I kind of froze, thinking what do I do and didn’t know how to react. If it was a normal person, I would have at the very least shouted at them to let go or tried to prise their hand open, but I wasn’t sure if he would have responded badly or done something worse. I had time to think all this before his carer appeared and tried to get him to release his grip, but it took a good minute. To make matters worse, the young man then skipped into the kitchen behind the servery and his carer had to bring him back out, walked past us and exactly the same thing happened again!! The carer managed to get the boy to release his grip but no apology or anything. My daughter was quite shocked by it, but I think she was more shocked that I didn’t intervene, and I feel terrible and ashamed. My gut reaction should have been to protect her, but I think because we are always being taught to be understanding and tolerant of neurodiversity, I just froze not knowing what to do or how to react. What would anyone else have done in this situation? Can anyone with specialized knowledge advise on what would have been the correct thing to do? It’s made me realise that there is very little public knowledge/education on how to respond when confronted with a situation like this and also raises the question of whether it was assault. If it had been someone without autism, it would surely have been assault but because they were clearly on the spectrum, are we to be more tolerant despite being subjected to pain and shock?

Or they have the immediate ‘fight’ reaction, same as OP has the freeze one. It’s reflexive, not logical.

Consistent, abnormal behavior that is anti-social like described means that man is not a normal person.

It doesn't mean we can't be compassionate toward people who can't control this behavior, but to pretend that he's a normal man is a lie.

Nice bit of victim blaming there.

The carer shouldn’t have let the guy do it the first time, let alone the second. The young woman is blameless here.

But some people were saying they'd punch him in the balls etc, surely an instinctive fight reaction wouldn't be so specific? Or that they think their daughters should be trained in martial arts to retaliate?

I really hope self defence training includes how to make a dynamic risk assessment, because I think in most scenarios it would be very unsafe to physically attack a man with a learning disability who has grabbed your hair from behind.

I really cannot get onboard with this idea that we should all allow ourselves and our children, to be physically assaulted, by physically stronger men, because they’re autistic.

It is completely and utterly unacceptable and the police can be contacted if only so as to ensure that the people caring for him are more responsible! This is their fault and their doing.

People saying “it’s a sensory thing” I’m sorry but someone else’s sensory requirements are not a justification for someone to be physically assaulted.

Martial art/self defence training would increase the chances of any retaliation being effective, so sure, why not?

Going for a known weak spot is absolutely something that can be done on instinct.

If actually faced with this situation they may go to hit elsewhere, but if someone is familiar enough with how they do respond when in shock, it’s very believable that someone saying that they would fight, would indeed fight.

OP sounds like she is describing someone with learning disabilities. The question of capacity would be a key legal consideration.

But you wouldn't necessarily know you were being assaulted by someone with learning difficulties. If someone grabbed my hair from behind my first thought wouldn't be whether he had learning difficulties or not!

Yes, it does. At least in my experience.

It’s not about going all Bruce Lee, it’s about extracting yourself quickly from an attack. That can mean getting yourself free and fleeing, or (quickly) incapacitating the attacker if the former isn’t an option.

"Normal" means conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.

Autism, especially non-verbal autism is explicitly not typical, standard or expected. Its converse, for example, is "neurotypical".

There is nothing "wrong" with being autistic any more than there is anything wrong with being genius level intelligent or a champion runner but none of these are normal. If i were taking about a genius and comparing them to a "normal" person, you would see very clearly there is no insult there.

Whether or not something is "normal" or "abnormal" is a statement of fact, not an insult or term of abuse unless spat at someone in that manner (and this is true of any otherwise neutral word you care to mention).

I do fear that the OP's horror of potentially offending may have informed her non-reaction here and this sort of language policing of someone using ordinary words according to their common meaning is likely to feed into this.

It's not about justification, it's about fact.

The fact is, some people with autism have severe associated learning disabilities and will grab hair on impulse. They don't understand that it hurts or have any concept of what they're doing, at all.

Of course it isn't right...but it's how it is.

The answer has to lie in proper risk assessments for such individuals being out in public. Unfortunately social care is stretched to the limit and many people probably aren't getting adequate support.

Whose saying we should allow ourselves and our children to be assaulted exactly????
And whilst it probably is a sensory thing ti the disabled person. Nobody is suggesting he should be allowed to carry on doing it
I personally am to point out that he won't be treated as a criminal if he doesn't have the capacity to understand what he does, not that NOTHING should be done about it.

Is assault legal if one is autistic? Genuinely would like to know.

In the kindest way, I think you're clutching at straws for a reason to excuse your behaviour, here.

You froze. In a flight or fright situation, you froze. In truth, you had a lot less control over that than you would've liked.

I don't buy the ' not sure what was appropriate seeing as they were ND' angle. I think we are all more than aware that when a person is attacked in public that we ARE allowed to intervene!

You just weren't able to and you need to explain that to your DD, rather than making excuses.

True, but I would assume most people would have seen the man before being grabbed and sort of understood what was going on. My junior school aged child is non verbal autistic and the public generally instantly understand what is going on these days.

However, I take your point that if grabbed from behind by an unknown male you might not know the situation.

If someone did this to my kids there would be a crime.

FFS the OP said that had it been a normal person pulling her dds hair she would have done something. So no, it's not simply about hair pulling, it's about being autistic.

A "normal man" could be simply an abusive piece of shit pulling her Dad's hair apparently according to her. And everyone is OK with that.

The 17 yo is weak and pathetic? The actual person who had their hair grabbed, pulled and twisted hard? Have you ever had that happened to you? Do you know how hard it is to get free or get enough stability/leverage to hit back? And that the more you pull the more it hurts and you actually have to lean in?

I've seen some spiteful BS on here, but this is another level.

It's about capacity to understand
You realise it's a massive spectrum right?
You could have one person who has average intelligence who maliciously and deliberately assaults someone
And someone who has the cognitive abilities of a toddler who grabs someone's hair or lashes out
Whilst they both have a diagnosis of autism person one is fully accountable for their actions
And person two isn't.

If suddenly attacked/ seeing your loved one suddenly being attacked ‘fight’ would be a reflexive response for many. Understanding that the attacker is autistic would not come into it.

And who would thst help?

It’s not ok no, but it’s not assault. There was no intent to harm, I’m sure. Getting the police involved could have caused unrepairable damage to the young man and would not solve anything.

This doesn’t make it ok , and OPs daughter still needs to be recognised for what she went through .

What should have happened is that it was reported to the agency / company who the carer worked for. I highly doubt this is the first time it has happened and with the way it has been described I would imagine it’s likely that this young person tends to go for hair just like your daughters ( maybe its length , maybe its colour , maybe the individual does this with a family member as a coping mechanism / regulation , and OPs daughters hair was similar ) and it is a sensory thing. He should have been monitored closely and kept close to his carer - this is to protect others ( like OP’s daughter ) and himself ( some may have reacted differently to him ). I am a teacher with young autistic adults and this is something we monitor , my team are aware and will be making sure that doesn’t happen. For example, we have one student who is triggered by babies crying - never tried to hurt any or anything like that but could get very heightened and when they’re like that , they could affect others , so they have 2 staff with them either side and we research where they are going etc. It doesn’t sound like the carer was doing the job correctly.

Also - just as an FYI. When it’s sensory , sometimes the individual requires strong grip / pressure … which would likely be why he grabbed tightly , not because he wanted to hurt her but he wanted to feel her hair and in order for it to feel calming to him , he had a tight grip. We have things like this but we work on what’s acceptable etc . I have a student who likes to play with hair , sometimes she will want to play with mine so I allow her if she asks me and only my hair , lightly , not touching my head. I do this to demonstrate to her the appropriate way - that they know me, I am not a stranger , a head massage is not acceptable as it’s inappropriate but asking for my consent to touch my hair and then waiting until that consent is given is ok . Sometimes I say no , to monitor how that is dealt with by the individual.

I think jumping to depriving someone of their liberty and not letting someone out in public is a huge leap. We don’t on the whole encourage solutions which lock disabled people away any more. It’s interesting that @SillyOldBucket thinks he was with a carer rather than a family member as he does sound like someone who isn’t being adequately supported.

My perspective on this scenario as presented is that the young man is being failed. He is at risk of being assaulted by a member of the public, at risk of being hurt in a kitchen, and could end up arrested with a “history of violent behaviour” which I would imagine might limit his opportunities in a very far reaching way forever.

Its a horrid thing to have happened to your dd OP but what you witnessed was neglect.

Absolutely no one of course. And they'd possibly cause the autistic person to have a full blown meltdown which could be far more dangerous, but everyone on MN is well hard don't you know.