AIBU to have not reacted when my daughter’s hair was grabbed, twisted and pulled by a non-verbal autistic man.

[SillyOldBucket]

At the weekend we visited a National Trust venue and stopped at the café for some lunch. My husband and one teenager daughter were sitting outside while I and our other 17-year-old daughter, who has long very blonde hair, joined the queue inside. I was standing just in front of her in the queue when I became aware of a boy/young man (I would guess aged about 20) beside us. He had his face up close to my daughter and was smiling at her. Initially, I thought it was someone she knew from college or her Saturday job but then all of a sudden he grabbed her hair, twisted it tightly around his hand, and was pulling very hard. I quickly realized that she didn’t know him and that he was non-verbal, probably autistic. However, I then remember that I kind of froze, thinking what do I do and didn’t know how to react. If it was a normal person, I would have at the very least shouted at them to let go or tried to prise their hand open, but I wasn’t sure if he would have responded badly or done something worse. I had time to think all this before his carer appeared and tried to get him to release his grip, but it took a good minute. To make matters worse, the young man then skipped into the kitchen behind the servery and his carer had to bring him back out, walked past us and exactly the same thing happened again!! The carer managed to get the boy to release his grip but no apology or anything. My daughter was quite shocked by it, but I think she was more shocked that I didn’t intervene, and I feel terrible and ashamed. My gut reaction should have been to protect her, but I think because we are always being taught to be understanding and tolerant of neurodiversity, I just froze not knowing what to do or how to react. What would anyone else have done in this situation? Can anyone with specialized knowledge advise on what would have been the correct thing to do? It’s made me realise that there is very little public knowledge/education on how to respond when confronted with a situation like this and also raises the question of whether it was assault. If it had been someone without autism, it would surely have been assault but because they were clearly on the spectrum, are we to be more tolerant despite being subjected to pain and shock?

The thing is, in the case of assault, the autism/neurodiversity is irrelevant. Especially when we're talking adults/near adults with their size and strength, even if not mental capacity.

The time for discussion, reflection , understanding and apologising (if needed) is after. After you/your child is safe, after the threat has passed.

Would you have still stood there debating the right thing if he was kicking or punching her?

Where did I say that I want to deprive people of their liberty? That's the very last thing I would want!

I said proper risk assessments are needed....for the benefit of all..

I’m really interested in this post because something similar happened to my family. I had my two children (5 month old and 2 year old) sitting in a double buggy in a coffee shop. Long story short, a young man - similar age to your scenario - suddenly leaned over my pram from behind and grabbed my son’s face and squeezed. Like fullhand over his face. He was non verbal and had a carer who was unable to pull him back easily, (His career was clearly not suitable to be caring for him!)

unlike in your situation though, I screamed like a banshee. Something like DONT TOUCH MY BABIES. I had no idea if he was doing it from a misplaced sense of kindness or if he was squeezing to hurt… I still don’t care and what I said still stands. I was horrified, terrified and furious in equal measure. He was lucky there was a table in between us otherwise I would have also launched myself at him in the moment too to make sure my son was safe. No one touches my babies like that. I was truly horrified, though, to find that not one person helped me. I think people thought I was some sort of uptight mother who didn’t want someone cooing over their baby, which was not the case.

Anyway, long story short…. Until something like this happens, you have no idea how you will react. I’m the most placid person you could
meet normally!!! All you can do is reflect on it, consider how you might learn from it and move on. At least it’s unlikely to happen again! Xxx

It might help with whoever is responsible for this young man to be a bit better at their job. Because they’d get it in the neck off me both barrels.

Exactly this. I'm also pretty convinced for most people who say this kind of thing, it's just not true.

When you say

The answer has to lie in proper risk assessments for such individuals being out in public.

you are obviously suggesting that “being out in public” is something you feel should be questioned “for such individuals”

Agreed. Axel Rudakubana has ASD and the judge didn't take it in to account when sentencing the vile specimen.
Think on that.

FFS, so many people here do not understand fight or flight at all - it is better understood as fight, flight, freeze, fawn/friend and flop. But that is not so catchy so it gets shortened. Your initial response is overwhelmingly an automatic reaction - there is little conscious thought involved. So, you dont 'choose' to freeze, and if you did, it is not a reflection on your character or bravery - it is an involuntary response. The last responses can also work in this way, but may also be a product of more rational thinking.

OP, please dont take any notice of the ignorant people on here who think you should not have frozen. You could not help it. They have no idea what they are talking about and all their bleating about what they would do is bs - no one can foresee what their response will be unless they have been in lots of similar situations and can see a trend in themselves.

As for apologizing to your daughter as you 'let her down' as a PP so charmingly put it, I would certainly talk to her, but you cant apologize for what you cannot help. Too many people on here projecting and speculating with no understanding of how this response actually works.

Of course it's not. I have a son who is autistic and now an adult. He has high functioning autism and knows that it is not OK to hit someone no matter how angry he gets. He knows he would be charged with assault and rightly so.

For people who are severely autistic and have a mental age of a toddler it's highly unlikely they would be charged with assault and go to court and then a normal prison, but they would be placed in a secure unit if they were considered a danger to the public.

I wish you would.

You misinterpreted me. I have a close relative on the spectrum and locking him away is the last thing I would want.

I meant a proper risk assessment to determine how much help is needed to keep the individual and the public safe. In my relatives case, it is two to one in public places. In the case of someone else where he lives, it is three to one. But funding is an issue sadly.

wow your poor daughter she knows now she can’t trust you to protect her in a situation with someone assaulting her.

Thats what she’s learnt from this situation mum is no protection or help.

The whole smiling face close would of been enough to get the heckles up if she wasn’t responding as if she knew him that’s where the step in should of happened frankly as a excuse me move away. Then he assaulted her twice and you just stood there.

On a purely practical level, putting your hand firmly over the top of the man’s hand, hard against the ‘victim’s’ head, to prevent him pulling on the hair would be the first step.

However, it’s safe to presume this type of challenging behaviour would be known about, and adherence to the risk assessment would have avoided this situation altogether.

The carer is to blame here.

Autism with no learning disability is very different to severe LD. Just like there is a difference between someone with mild anxiety committing a crime and someone with severe schizophrenia committing the same act while in active psychosis.

It literally is relevant in law.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/mental-health-suspects-and-defendants

You said a crime ?
I csn understand you being angry and shouting but if you resort to violence you will be the one in trouble.

AR pre planned his awful attack, called the taxi etc.. could read, talk, write… that is not the same at all.

I’ll ask again. Is it assault if a baby pulls hair?

Assault and battery have a legal definition for it to be a crime, which do actually include intent or recklessness.

So in some circumstances an autistic person would lack the capacity to intend things or be reckless so it would very unlikely be a crime. It would be a social care/mental health/safeguarding issue.

There are defences if someone did try to prosecute, if it wasnt clear cut whhether someone had capacity, which might be relevant. I can't remember if diminished responsibility us for Assault, but there is also insanity and automation (like your black out and knock someone over when you fall) that could be relevant to some people with asd.

Oh but I’m autistic!

Being autistic doesn't give you the right to assault a person twice. I think I'd have shouted at him, let go of my daughter's hair. Yes, if I knew who it was I would have called the police because if this young man can't be trusted not to assault young girls he shouldn't be out without a person who can control him. As for no apology, that just shows both he and the carer really don't care who he hurts.

Baby no. Adult yes.
Very simple

OP didn’t do this. In any case, normal in this context means to fall within the normal distribution of traits, and the assailant quite likely doesn’t.

You said you didn't need education, about autism ,you really do as agsin autism is a vast spectrum somebody can be autistic with at least average intelligence and be fully accountable for their actions Ol
On the other hand somebody csn be autistic with the cognitive ability of a toddler do you really think any judge would take thst into account???

Ahh sorry. I didn't take time to carry out a risk assessment and learn about your disability as you were attacking me.

Don't be.obtuse
What about an adult with the mind of a baby/toddler?

What about if the man was 17, or 11, or 9?