Asking too much to get a private school place?

[Twentythirdtry]

If there’s a child in a private prep whose parents receive no financial help for this, are they unreasonable to believe they have any chance of securing a bursary for senior school?

• the child is awaiting diagnosis for ASD
• quite exceptionally talented in art and current head believes there’s a chance to secure art scholarship.
• just above average CAT scores (tad below in verbal reasoning) so likely to pass entrance tests

parents are facing mounting debt (including utility bills) funding his current school place, and often go without basic and necessities for themselves. The parents rent, don’t own a car, don’t have any savings capital or investments, have no family to ask. One parent is a full time carer for a severely disabled relative and the other parent earns 45k pre tax with sometimes 100 hours overtime each month.

senior school place would be entirety of fathers post tax income per annum

difference in the child’s academic and social development since moving to prep has been noted by teachers as commendable.

Child did not cope well in State primary due to bullying and local secondaries have a growing problem with knife crime.

given some parents own homes/mortgages, equity, savings, car(s), not in debt etc, and moderate incomes, and are granted bursaries…

would the child be likely to be granted a bursary? If so, would this be likely a large or small bursary/any idea of percent?

https://www.isc.co.uk

Indep Schools Council info on bursary & scholarship and how to get grants etc.

That’s not true at all, I work exceptionally hard but I am unpaid and I absolutely believe my child is deserving of quality education.

to put it simply, you shouldn’t be getting financial relief from the tax payer for something you could afford yourself whilst judging others experiencing actual hardship for even thinking of asking for financial support. especially when it’s my sons father who is now helping to subsidise your child’s state grammar education via the VAT he is now paying.

Lots have people have said that financial aid of 10% or maybe even 15% might be possible. Would you be able to afford the secondary fees for 5/7 years with that sort of discount or not?

No I don’t think so. Even at 50% it would be a serious struggle and even more so as fees increase. I couldn’t help but wonder though, if there are children in receipt of 20% when they don’t have anything to offer in the way of exceptional academics or talents. I knew it’d be unlikely but I suppose I just wanted to know if it’s just unlikely or near enough impossible.

I couldn’t help but wonder though, if there are children in receipt of 20% when they don’t have anything to offer in the way of exceptional academics or talents.

Couldn't help wonder what exactly?

My apologies that was badly worded - wonder if my child, if he were to get a scholarship, would be granted a higher bursary, if some children who aren’t scholarship standard in any way get 20% bursary purely on the basis that they already attend but can no longer afford full fees.

i fully understand how optimistic it sounds but I don’t really think I have much of a choice other than to try.

OP I think you seriously need to be looking at your local state schools. Even a bit further afield than the nearest ones, do some research on what they can offer, then apply for EHCP and find out about getting a school named on that.

It seems like private school fees are just going to be out of reach for you and surely a state school with good pastoral and SEN provision is going to be better for your DC than 3 hours of homeschooling fitted in around caring responsibilities? Plus the stress for everyone of being in debt, working overtime, not having necessities or even the odd treat, think of your family's quality of life for the next 5-7 years. Your DC will surely become aware of how financially stretched you are and why, that wouldn't be good for anyone, plus the risk of it falling apart once he's settled in a school and having to leave and go wherever there's a space in a state school. Honestly look at your realistic options now rather than being forced into it later.

As a general rule, PS schools don't give bursaries out of compassion, they want to attract pupils who will make them look good in league tables and uni destinations

Not entirely true, I've known circumstances such as illness or death of parent where school has stepped in to help continuity for existing pupils. Op, you say some other parents appear to get bursaries but not be as financially constrained, It is possible their fees are paid by grandparents or part funded by employers.Although not sure how you could identify who is or not on a bursary with any certainty.

@Twentythirdtry You are being very rude about better off grammar school
parents. I'm in a grammar LA. Very few getting a grammar place don't take them up and divert to private. Obviously some people will want private right from day 1 but others find they are better off than they thought but still want a grammar if dc gets into one. You can see pretty well off people using the grammars. They are perfectly entitled to do this.

A few prep schools here send dc to a prestigious academic boarding:day girls school (very competitive) and there are a few other senior schools of varying prestige and quality, but mostly they take non grammar dc who didn't get pass mark. So I find it extraordinary that you berate people, who frankly pay way more tax than your family, for taking up state school spaces.

You are making your decisions based on what you want which seems to be that others pay for your dc via a bursary. I think in some schools that is not fair on others who are trying their best in difficult circumstances to pay fees and help with bursaries. You do come across as entitled to their money. They also work hard.

Only berating those who judge others thinking of asking for help all the while they’re expecting others to pay for their children’s education. Like I said, if the shoe fits.

My apologies that was badly worded - wonder if my child, if he were to get a scholarship, would be granted a higher bursary, if some children who aren’t scholarship standard in any way get 20% bursary purely on the basis that they already attend but can no longer afford full fees.

No, I doubt it. There's a finite amount of money in the pot.

Have these people all told you that they are in receipt of 20% bursaries?

You've said you'd struggle financially with a 50% bursary, so it feels like you are really clutching at straws here.

No of course not but there are many schools who have been encouraging parents to apply for bursaries since the VAT add on to keep their children there.

@Twentythirdtry If they are paying huge amounts of tax and use a grammar school, what handouts are they getting? We paid well over £100,000 a year in tax. DH's company collected and handed over vat. We didn't use a grammar but we believe others have the right to do so.

Then the tax you pay is entirely irrelevant! if you think you’ve made a point here, you haven’t.

you can’t berate a working class person for asking for financial support for better education whilst they pay for your child’s place at a grammar you don’t need. It’s as simple as that.

What!!!??? These people do feel they need it! Who are you to tell parents to pay for schools. Working class? Are you? What's that got to do with anything? Other working class people pay their way. You no longer want to.

So maybe if your dc could get a grammar place, would you be happy to accept that place others have paid for? A lot more than you have. Why do you continually think others should pay for you? Of course they do - into the state school system that you don't want. It's good enough for the vast majority though.

They ‘feel’ they need it? Are you actually joking?

They certainly shouldn’t be telling someone they shouldn’t ask for assistance when they actually do need it, and should get a better job … for the quality of education and just as/more deserving. Despite they themselves refusing to get a job to pay for a better education!

About 1 person said you should not ask. Attacking the better off for using grammar schools is counter productive. However many people do have to work to afford private and have dependent relatives. They find alternative solutions. They don't just ask others to pay.

That’s where you are fundamentally incorrect. I didn’t ‘attack’ the well off for such a thing. I pointed out the hypocrisy, arrogance and audacity for someone with a higher income and using a tax payer funded school place they don’t need whilst judging and criticising a person experiencing genuine hardship in an area where grammars aren’t even an option, for even thinking of asking for financial assistance.

and I think you’ll find I am in fact paying what I don’t have and subsidising people who are much more well off than me currently, you couldn’t be more wrong.

I haven’t read the full thread so apologies if this has already been covered. Have you got PIP payments and / or ESA benefits plus carers allowance? There are online calculators for benefits. With your relative being so vulnerable and needing full time care, you should be eligible.

With bursaries, there are sometimes points for extenuating circumstances and your caring responsibilities and child’s previous school experiences may fall into this. In a non selective school, it may be easier to get a bursary??

I would contact the bursars in the potential schools and be very honest about your position and see what they say.

Ok @Twentythirdtry seeing as you have brought me up in literally every post saying I’m taking a grammar place from poor hard done to children, tell me where I said I’m wealthy and can afford private school. Show me. And if I can’t, then why should I get a better paid job or work more hours when my ‘extenuating circumstances’ mean I work and earn probably as much as I can AT THE MOMENT. How is that different to you. You make such assumptions and come across defensive, uninformed, uneducated and quite frankly rude and unhinged in some respects. How is your child any more important than mine. Hundreds of people have disabled relatives INCLUDING ME and we make it work and prioritise our KIDS and their needs

I’ll say it again - priorities - is your disabled relative your priority or your SEND child ? It’s very clear from your posts that your child is way down on the pecking order , it’s sad

He isn’t prioritised 😆 my child has a better education than yours despite my caring responsibilities and much lower income.

Don’t ask people why they can’t work more when you haven’t even asked yourself why you’re not working more to afford a better education. Take it as a lesson learned to not be so judgemental and arrogant.

Yes I’m sure that is going to be a school that would consider our circumstances and give him a chance somewhere. It’s just a matter of finding it. Thanks 🙂

@Twentythirdtry You have a PhD in judging people and their incomes!

@Twentythirdtry ok. Whatever you say. I can categorically say, from reading everything you’ve said here my kid will have a better academic outcome than yours, that being said, good luck to the wee lad, think he’s gonna need it.