Asking too much to get a private school place?

[Twentythirdtry]

If there’s a child in a private prep whose parents receive no financial help for this, are they unreasonable to believe they have any chance of securing a bursary for senior school?

• the child is awaiting diagnosis for ASD
• quite exceptionally talented in art and current head believes there’s a chance to secure art scholarship.
• just above average CAT scores (tad below in verbal reasoning) so likely to pass entrance tests

parents are facing mounting debt (including utility bills) funding his current school place, and often go without basic and necessities for themselves. The parents rent, don’t own a car, don’t have any savings capital or investments, have no family to ask. One parent is a full time carer for a severely disabled relative and the other parent earns 45k pre tax with sometimes 100 hours overtime each month.

senior school place would be entirety of fathers post tax income per annum

difference in the child’s academic and social development since moving to prep has been noted by teachers as commendable.

Child did not cope well in State primary due to bullying and local secondaries have a growing problem with knife crime.

given some parents own homes/mortgages, equity, savings, car(s), not in debt etc, and moderate incomes, and are granted bursaries…

would the child be likely to be granted a bursary? If so, would this be likely a large or small bursary/any idea of percent?

There is reams and reams of medical evidence to prove the person’s need for care, documentation detailing what I do for the person (shopping, showering, cleaning, medication, cooking, washing, dressing, attending appointments/wheeling them around and general support, safeguarding, advocacy and company). @Twentythirdtry

How will you find the time to home educate whilst being a full time carer?

Home eschooling isn't just putting a dc in front of a computer, there is significant time commitments engaging with the dc, supervision, planning, taking DC to HE groups for social interaction and support, excursions and experiences etc

I'm not trying to put a downer on the idea but I think you need to research what is involved seeing as you are already a full time carer.

Thanks.

As for the comment, it was absolutely intended to alienate certain people by highlighting the sheer hypocrisy, arrogance and audacity of those who think I should either abandon the disabled/vulnerable person I care for to pay fees and not apply for bursary, or who would so prematurely assume that I haven’t already exhausted every other option, whilst being in a position themselves that they actually could improve for their children if only they got a better paid job or worked a bit harder. It’s the grey pot calling the white kettle ‘black’. Poster I replied to quickly showed true colours…

From my understanding with homeschooling, active learning/teaching time is vastly less than the amount of time he’d spend at school or getting to/from - around 3 hours per day 1-1 teaching. Not to mention online tutors, home school clubs (there’s one nearby). Providing the care around homeschool whilst I’m with the person I care for wouldn’t be impossible at all.

the main downside is the lack of intense social interaction offered by a school and he certainly needs that social element/learn and practise social skills more than most.

you seem to have taken this personally, if the shoe fits!

Says the person who apparently can’t work but can home ed a secondary child with additional needs successfully. You’re absolutely clueless it’s actually hilarious 😆

Yes, because it’s at home, the same place the unpaid care takes place.

you ready to explain why you’re taking up a place at grammar when you could easily afford to send your daughter private where she would totally definitely get a place?

An art scholarship might get you a 5% or maximum 10% reduction, depending on the school.

Bursaries are based on means testing, which is carried out separately from the offer of a place or scholarship. The pot is normally smaller than the demand, so there is an element of chance. No harm in trying, as long as you accept that it’s not a given and whether you think your child is more deserving than another is irrelevant.

thank you. Yeah, I think it could be worth a shot at least.

you ready to explain why you’re taking up a place at grammar when you could easily afford to send your daughter private where she would totally definitely get a place?

OP, you're embarrassing yourself. This question is so stupid you're losing any support you could have. Why shouldn't this poster get a grammar place? is this written in law that people above certain threshold must send their children to private schools? and then pay bursary for yours?
To annoy you even more - my ND DC got a place at the very top league private (top 3 in the UK). They also sat exams in one of top grammars in the UK, just for practice, didn't intend to go there originally. With introduction of VAT and all discrimination of PS kids by top unis I decided not to stretch myself anymore and retire earlier instead and send DC to that top grammar. Yes, they are taking a space that could go to some really poor child. Tough. Unintended consequences. A lot of friends still went private. They used to donate to bursary funds. They don't anymore.

Without wishing to be intrusive or unsympathetic, how likely is it that the caring responsibilities might change over the next few years ? Would even getting pt carers enable you to financially contribute to the expenses? You refer to your ds father, but not partner/husband funding his education, are you living as a family, as if not the assessment for any bursary may differ.

That’s fine, but if you were to reject a private school place which you could afford if you chose to and take up a grammar place whilst expecting those experiencing severe hardship to abandon their disabled relatives who are reliant on them or work harder get a better paid job to pay private school fees instead of applying to bursary support, then you’re just as bad as the person I was referring to.

We were offered places at 3 schools for my ASD DC. No one asked to see an Ed Psyc report so I think this is incorrect. They did however wish to see his diagnostic report and latest school report

You can't judge what a person I am and what hardships I went through to fund my DCs private primary and what disable person I'm caring for. You've got no idea.

I don't judge you for your desire to do best for your child. I do judge you for attacking people who make perfectly legitimate choices which works best for them.

I don't expect you to abandon your relative, I don't have any expectations of random strangers on public anonymous forum. Your original question was about your entitlement to bursary. A number of posters tried to give you the answer but you started attacking them.
Well, navigate your path.

OP your pov is quite confusing - you dont want to ask school for financial help because you think they'll think badly of you and it'll affect your child's treatment or reference. But you also think wealthier people than you are getting financial help. You don't have time to work as you're a full time carer but you will have time to homeschool secondary school. You're in debt after paying school fees for a short amount of time, but are also planning to commit to 5-7 years of fees for secondary. You're adamant that state secondary isn't an option, but can't afford private.

Your options are: do less care (not none, less) and work as well to pay school fees and bills. Or do less care and homeschool. Or ask for financial help from school and possibly risk your DC being badly treated because of it. Or find a state secondary your child could do well at. Or continue getting into debt until you are bankrupt and have to change school in distressing circumstances. It seems like you want someone to come on and say yes, a lovely talented in art and average in academics child will definitely get 100% bursary, here are the details. It doesn't seem very realistic.

I think it depends on diagnosis - EdP can diagnose e.g. dyslexia, then this report is needed. ASD/ADHD requires MD to diagnose properly, so report is required in this case.
Overall, if parents sign the contract and don't disclose condition and it later transpires that they knew about condition then school is within their right to terminate the contract immediately and fees will still be due.
No primary Headmaster will hide from secondary their views on existing or potential condition and they will state what Senco support is provided.

Have the applied for an EHCP ? My DD is attending an Independent specialist although academic school from September year 7 with the 65k fees including vat a year being paid for by the LEA

No, the only person I made this comment to was someone who is expecting others to pay for their children’s prestige education and thereby taking the chance away from a more deserving student, while they could afford it themselves if they chose to whilst being so critical of someone experiencing genuine hardship for pondering asking for a bursary in an area where grammars aren’t an option at all.

if this doesn’t apply to you, you really need not be offended.

Hmm.. interesting. It must be school/area dependent ?

No haven’t applied for EHCP. I really don’t have much faith in our LA either. I may well end up applying for one but I won’t hold my breath if it comes to it.

You literally have guessed at my circumstances. All you know is that I work and that my child goes to a selective school. That’s literally it. So because I work my child

you seem to be absolutely adamant that kids of people who work hard are somehow less deserving when it comes to education. It’s bizarre. Prioritise your child, hell if I was in your situation I’d sell a kidney to get the education my kid needed. You’re experiencing what you call ‘severe hardship’ - do you think any of this is fair on your kid.

whilst expecting those experiencing severe hardship to abandon their disabled relatives who are reliant on them or work harder get a better paid job to pay private school fees instead of applying to bursary support

No one has said that though have they? No one has said you shouldn't apply for a bursary. Lots have people have said you might well not get one, or not one that'd put the rest of the fees in reach for you.

And there seems to be the reality - you can't afford what you want and you want the school to cover what you can't afford and people are saying that's not likely to happen, don't bank on if, sure no harm in asking but you should probably think of a plan B. And that's not what you want to hear.

I'm sorry your circumstances are tough and you don't feel state schools will be right for your DC, but you have to be realistic. It's better to work this out now than come unstuck when your DC's in year 10.

It’s more nuanced than your understanding;

• current fees are half of that of the senior schools I’m pondering asking for a bursary for

• the wealthier people than me probably getting support at current prep most likely had children attending before they ended up in a position of struggle - they didn’t go to the school knowing they’d experience hardship, secure the place then expect a bursary because their children were now attending.

• homeschooling for 3 hours a day (maybe in stints of 1 hour three times a day) with the help of online tutors, clubs and his dad to homeschool too (who wouldn’t have to work the ridiculous overtime he’s currently working to afford current fees) would be far more doable than being at a place of work (and not with disabled relative) for 6/8/10/12 hours per day 3-5 days per week.

• I’m not planning to commit to paying 30k a year for 7 years, I’m wondering if fee assistance is realistic or not for DS.

What is your question though? if bursary is feasible? nobody knows, you need to ask schools, your DC needs to sit exams. They might well be the next Da Vinci and schools will bite your arm off to get your DC. Or DC might be just somewhat good at drawing, but being very average academically there might be much more desirable (from school POV) candidates. Or schools might not have bursary funds at all.

As a general rule, PS schools don't give bursaries out of compassion, they want to attract pupils who will make them look good in league tables and uni destinations.

It is what a certain poster has said, they’ve assumed that I haven’t even thought of asking LA to provide care (which is very presumptuous) and that I should get a paid job to pay the fees which would mean abandoning disabled/vulnerable relative. For example, right now I am in a dentist waiting room with said person. Before I started caring for them they didn’t ever attend a dentist because 1) they had little to no help with getting to the appointment 2) they have a phobia of the dentist… and their dental health has suffered severely as a result. Hence, we are now waiting to go in for them to take a mold, in order to make a full set of dentures because they’ve had all their teeth pulled out by the age of 59.

I really was only asking, but there’s simply no need for anyone to have judged so prematurely or harshly. Of course I know that there is not a high chance of being granted anything by a private school. However, I couldn’t help but wonder if this was a feasible option for DS especially as he does have something to give back in the way of exceptional talent, whereas I’m sure some bursaries are granted to children to keep them attending who don’t have any particular talent or are academically exceptional.