Asking too much to get a private school place?

[Twentythirdtry]

If there’s a child in a private prep whose parents receive no financial help for this, are they unreasonable to believe they have any chance of securing a bursary for senior school?

• the child is awaiting diagnosis for ASD
• quite exceptionally talented in art and current head believes there’s a chance to secure art scholarship.
• just above average CAT scores (tad below in verbal reasoning) so likely to pass entrance tests

parents are facing mounting debt (including utility bills) funding his current school place, and often go without basic and necessities for themselves. The parents rent, don’t own a car, don’t have any savings capital or investments, have no family to ask. One parent is a full time carer for a severely disabled relative and the other parent earns 45k pre tax with sometimes 100 hours overtime each month.

senior school place would be entirety of fathers post tax income per annum

difference in the child’s academic and social development since moving to prep has been noted by teachers as commendable.

Child did not cope well in State primary due to bullying and local secondaries have a growing problem with knife crime.

given some parents own homes/mortgages, equity, savings, car(s), not in debt etc, and moderate incomes, and are granted bursaries…

would the child be likely to be granted a bursary? If so, would this be likely a large or small bursary/any idea of percent?

Yes, there are 3 schools locally that offer art scholarships and one even offers a DT as well as an art scholarship.

Realistically you can't afford the fees unless it's 100% funded. Your household income and financial details should qualify for this if it is offered by the school. Every school is different so you need to speak to the bursar. However your child does need to be exceptional usually academically to be offered a bursary at any scale. Scholarships are separate and don't necessarily mean funding either.

Sport is very different to art. No scholarships at our old school had a reduction in fees at all. They were all honorary. Schools do have art scholarships but they are not linked to bursaries. It’s worth having a go but parents not making the best decisions regarding earning are really looking for those who do work to subsidise them. Not sure this is really fair.

Thanks for your replies.

It wasn’t clear from the websites that bursaries are only reserved for the highly academically gifted or maybe exceptionally talented in sports.

just to clear a couple of things up though: I wasn’t ‘expecting’ a ‘freebie’ education as one person said; currently his fees are fully paid for (possibly unlike this posters DC) so I think that was a bit cheeky! I was wondering if I’d be mad to even ask for any assistance.

and as for circumstances around caring responsibilities, it’s not possible to up and leave the disabled relative to fend for themselves..?

to those who don’t understand our position here: most school refusers are ASD/neurodivergent, most children with ASD have mental health issues and are targets for bullying and many end up without employment prospects in adulthood, so please forgive me for exploring any possible options which could help DS avoid these very possible eventualities. I think it’s apparent from the current circumstances I’ve described that we are not just trying to get something for nothing, as it seems some have interpreted this as.

to the rest of you I do appreciate the reality check (especially the ones who have been a little more understanding and gentle in approach!)

I see you have local schools offering art scholarships, but as many people have said scholarships do not usually mean any reduction in fees. At our school the art scholar gets a budget for good quality paints and brushes and gets extra 1-1 lessons with the art teacher. There is no money at all off the fees.

Bursaries are decided totally separately. Your finances would be gone through very carefully and bluntly you would be told to get a paid job rather than being a carer.

(I realise I’m sounding very negative! But I think your chances of managing/affording this are extremely low. I have two autistic boys so am sympathetic, but you would be better off looking for a good state option).

There will be problems in the private school too OP might not be knife but drugs . Society's issues are prevalent across all classes

"earns 45k pre tax with sometimes 100 hours overtime each month"

Less than minimum wage per hour? Or are some months less than 37.5 hours/week with no overtime?

(and yes I know it's salaried but the 100 hours overtime a month...)

Oh yes I understand that no where is perfect, it rather comes down to the lesser of the evils as it were.

How have you worked this out?

40 hours per week x 52 weeks a year +
plus 100 hours over time per month x 12 months in a year = 3280

45000 divided by 3280 = 13.71…

I think it would depend on the school OP, and how much weight they gave artistic talent.

I went to a private school back in the 80s on a 100% scholarship based on musical ability. But it was a fairly progressive school that liked to celebrate art, music, sport etc, rather than just academic achievement. I'm not sure it's still like that now.

These days I imagine there's more focus on academic results, because ultimately that's what most parents consider when they decide to pay for private school. And with private schools struggling since the VAT thing, they'll want to draw in as many full-paying pupils as they can.

My guess is that without fairly high academic expectations too, it might be hard to get a significant bursary for an artistically gifted child. But as I say, it depends on the school.

” most school refusers are ASD/neurodivergent, most children with ASD have mental health issues and are targets for bullying and many end up without employment prospects in adulthood, so please forgive me for exploring any possible options which could help DS avoid these very possible eventualities”

None of this means that these things will happen to your child. Your child doesn't even have a diagnosis yet and you are already assuming that their life is ruined.

Please link to the evidence that “ most children with ASD have mental health issues “ because I don’t think that’s correct.

Sending your children to a private school does not guarantee that they will avoid any of these things that you are worried about.

I have two children with ASD, one has several degrees and holds down a well paid job and the other is still at university. Both went to a state school.

Neither is a school refuser or is mentally ill or will have problems getting a job. I don’t think they are the two exceptions in the Uk - my second child’s university department is full of ND kids - they didn’t all go to private schools.

Yes it’s normal to wnat to your child to do well. But it’s not sensible to fixate on one particular solutions as the only one that will work.

I asked you before - how does your child react when they know you are going without food / clothes to fund their school fees ?

@Twentythirdtry I would speak to the school and ask their criteria, and whether it's just based on their artistic merit or whether they also need to excel at other subjects too.

Even then, it might just be a partially funded place rather than a fully funded one.

Have you considered home schooling? Given the cost of private school, it might be worthwhile home schooling. Our local art shop does home schooling lessons, so you could pay for additional art curriculum things for him.

You could then get a job that fits round the home schooling hours.

You would be better off applying for an EHCP which can then be used to part fund a private school place, if of course this is needed and the school can meet need (unlikely to be this one at 10k per term though)!
My ASD daughter attends an independent school on an EHCP funded place.

Generally, in private and independent schools, art music, sport and academic scholarships are more of a recognition/kudos thing. There may be a financial award attached, but not always.

My dd was offered sport, music and academic scholarships to a school which offered 30% off fees.

Another school offered her a music scholarship which was 2 instrumental lessons per week.

A highly regarded school for sport which offered her a sports scholarship offered £400 towards kit, plus a place on their sports pathway which gave additional coaching, sports psychology etc.

Also, please bear in mind that there may be quite a few children being offered scholarships - there were about 6 music scholars per year at my daughter's school, plus scholars in sport, drama, art and academics. It's great that your son is a talented artist, but he's likely to be one of several, so it's important to keep it in perspective.

Many, many schools are reducing their bursaries and scholarships due to the VAT burden.

So does it say what these scholarships actually are? It usually details “art scholarship gives you 10% off fees/ 2 lessons a week/ a massive art set” etc

Could you apply for an ehcp and put the private school as the named school if it's the only place your DC will attend? That's the assumption I'm making from your post as you mentioned school refusal.

‘Previously reported prevalence rates indicate that between 70% to 95% of children and adolescents with ASD have at least one co-occurring psychiatric disorder’ - a published American peer reviewed study from the National Library of Medicine / https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6669096/#:~:text=Previously%20reported%20prevalence%20rates%20indicate,of%20children%20and%20adolescents%20with

So it does very much appear that your children are indeed the exceptions.

I do see and appreciate the sentiment behind what you’re saying here, however, given DS prior experiences at state school, whereby he was disproportionately targeted by bullies (even some of the teachers used to shout at him and humiliate him), I think I’d be only more ridiculously optimistic than what I probably am (to think he might get fee assistance) to believe that my son would be one of the lucky ones to cruise through state school/avoid bullying and the associated consequences to mental health.

how did you work out what state schools was the best from your options? Did you have EHCP or any extra support? Did you do anything else which may have made their experiences better or less targeted? If you do have any advice at all re state schooling, it would be very much appreciated?

and as for circumstances around caring responsibilities, it’s not possible to up and leave the disabled relative to fend for themselves..?

Unless the disabled person you care for is your child, you're making a choice to provide that care instead of getting a paying job. That sounds harsh but that's how it'll be seen if you apply for funding. If the disabled person paid for care or got local authority care or went into assisted living, you could get a job and pay for your bills and food and your child's private education. It's not sustainable to go without food, or to apply for funding for school fees, while essentially giving away your work for free. Sorry that's not what you want to hear.

You posted this before and got loads of advice saying probably not gonna happen... The advice won't have changed cos you put it in 3rd person.

To those suggesting I get a job. I know I may seem intellectually deficient given the situation 😅however let me reassure you that this is an option that has in fact already been considered and is not, at present, a viable option in any way. It is not possible. I have not been walking around with holes in my shoes for the sake of it.

Actually there were only 3 replies. I’ve posted it in AIBU given it’s a far more popular thread

That sounds like a crazy choice. I’d think they’d be better using any money to get private reports and an EHCP/going to tribunal if necessary to get an appropriate place at a state school - SEN or mainstream - rather than funding private on their income.

OP you have nothing to lose by asking the 3 schools you've identified a) what the criteria are for art scholarships and can they give you an example of the standards they require/how they will be assessed. b) what the typical scholarship offer would be and if you applied for a top up bursary, how much you could reasonably expect that to be c) how many they award each year.

I do think that it's also worth having a look to see if there are any local state schools who place great emphasis on art. We have a local state school who have a huge focus on dance for example - the facilities (if you are that way inclined) are incredible, far better than the local private schools. It gives you a back up plan if the finances don't work out for private - maybe your local LA would be able to help you work out if there are any arts focused schools? One of our state schools offers a small number of selective places each year for talented sports/music/drama/art kids. If he can find a place at an arts type state school, my guess would be he'd be very likely to 'find his tribe' with similar arts kids, meaning the bullying issues might not be so much of a problem.

Is there a reason why the parents (can't work out if you are the parents from your post) wouldn't apply for an EHCP if they are not managing in mainstream state school and get them a placement that would support their needs? Even if that happened to be a private school, that would be funded by the local authority.