To think drinking daily is not “normal”

[Lemonteas]

DH drinks most days, nothing much but a couple of pints. He’s also a big wine lover, and I like wine, but can take it or leave it. He has made comments that he wishes we had more date nights with wine, preferably weekly. I would be up for doing it every two weeks, I’m just not a big drinker — I got it very much out of my system in a big way when I was younger and have had several family members die due to alcoholism, so it’s something I’m wary about and personally keep it strictly to socialising.

Tonight, unrelated to his specific drinking habits, we were discussing a mutual friend who drinks a bottle of wine each day. I commented that it sounds like a slippery slope. He immediately got defensive and said that my attitude to drinking is unusual and that “it’s perfectly normal for people to drink everyday.” I cannot relate to this and maybe it is my own personal experience being that the people I’ve known drink daily have all had terrible battles with alcoholism, and the fact that beyond that, I just don’t ever feel an urge to drink it at home.

I’d like to understand if my attitudes are indeed wrong; I don’t judge but I think I’m easily concerned and biased due to personal experiences, or if he’s possibly being defensive due to the fact he himself drinks every day?

I actually agree with your DH in some ways I don’t think he’s saying come join me in my (mm diagnosed) alcoholism he’s saying he’s love to spend a night sharing a really good wine and eating good food.

Hard disagree. It sounds very much like the DH is trying either to increase his intake in a more socially acceptable way than just drinking more by himself, or to increase OP's intake so that she becomes a hypocrite when she suggests he cut back (or that she is a puritan, boring etc if she refuses to join in).

Yes, just like with obesity a lot of people hide behind "normal" or "average" and equate that to "healthy". They are in denial and the rest of us are picking up the tab via the NHS

Not normal in this house.

They do it in the cars on the way to and from their 50 hour a week retirement jobs. You mean you’re not doing that?!

It's common but it shouldn't be and it's not good for physical or mental health. But I was there too and it is a slippery slope, and one that is very tricky to get off. I was there because I was leaning on alcohol too much as a coping mechanism, I was unhappy and depressed and didn't feel good about myself, and of course alcohol just magnifies all of those things instead of helping them, but it's very difficult to see that for yourself when you're in the think of things and drinking a bottle or two of wine a day.

He needs to understand why he drinks, and at that level it won't be just because he likes a beer or thinks he's a wine connoisseur. There will be bigger reasons behind it. Then he needs to address those. But if he's not ready to do that, no amount of you telling him his drinking habits are abnormal is going to change things, and unfortunately he's just going to get defensive.

Being on the other side of it, what helped me was to reconnect with friends and get out for meet ups during the day, walks etc (not meals out which would inevitably involve drinking) and to start exercising more and set myself a training plan or target. This has lifted my mood massively and made me feel so much better physically that the craving for alcohol has reduced massively. Also listening to sober podcasts has been great. I hope your partner can start to see some of this for himself, but it's not easy at all

Drinking any alcohol at all is not "normal" since it is a toxin and the body has to fight its adverse effects!

Your DH would never say smoking is normal would he? Lots still do but it has become socially unacceptable when once it was expected!

I think alcohol may go the same way - at least I hope so, despite my hollow legs.

Bottle of wine a night - no. Glass of wine a night - personally no issue with that.

Before everyone jumps on what the NHS guidelines are - I know. There are many things very bad for us, including cortisol induced by stress and a whole bunch of other inflammation, that’s before you even get to diet and exercise and environmental pollutants. I would look at the whole person and behaviour before taking a hard line. But yes, a daily bottle obviously too much.

It's not normal personally I don't know anyone that drinks daily let alone a full bottle of wine a day. I agree it's a very slippery slope as alcohol is addictive.

Having lived in Mediterranean countries I can assure people that make reference to these studies most people from these countries don't drink daily. The only ones I saw doing it where the retired Brits who lived there. The locals certainly ate a very healthy balanced diet and had the odd good red wine but very much the odd one. They didn't drink to get drunk and it wasn't part of there say to day life. I lived amongst the locals and it wasn't part of my life either.

My DH drinks a bottle every night. He says he’s not an alcoholic as his intake isn’t increasing, he’s reliant on alcohol. I see it as the same thing.
Even if he were to stop now, I wouldn’t be able to forgive him for all the years of drinking.

I drink probably 4 or 5 days of the week but I'm not put out if I can't for whatever reason such as driving later (or the wine not being chilled long enough 😂)

I'll have a G&T while I'm cooking or a glass of wine with my meal. 🤷🏼‍♀️

What I don't do is drink a bottle of wine a day and call it normal! That's not normal or safe.

i guess it is normal for many - which is why they recommend an alcohol free day a week.

There are many people who rarely drink. There’s many people who drink to excess. Personally, I drank in my twenties and loved it - less in my thirties and by my forties had stopped…I much prefer a cup of tea!
Anyone who tried to coax me in to consuming it with them would get a sharp talking to, I don’t mind other people drinking but don’t dream of bullying/coercing me about anything.

None of my friends drink daily.

Normal for someone addicted alcohol
maybe. No, it’s not normal and every single piece of health advice in this says the same thing- don’t drink alcohol everyday

I can polish off a bottle of wine on a Saturday night but then I feel a bit crap the next day. The thought of doing that every night makes me feel ill. Alcohol is only an issue if it is causing you any problems in your life. If it doesn’t then fine, crack on. But often it does and people are in denial about it.

A bottle of wine a night is too much. I remember falling into this habit during Covid and I put on a lot of weight and permanently felt sluggish.

Now I try to have at least 2-3 sober nights per week. Ideally I'd like to be able to take it or leave it when it comes to alcohol but I have to admit I do use it as a bit of a crutch and a way to unwind after a stressful day. But now it's only one glass of wine or one G&T.

Your dh does sound defensive. I do find that the attitudes about booze on MN are pretty extreme though.

I think it’s quite common to have eg a small glass of wine each evening with dinner in some families.

A bottle of wine a night is very unhealthy. It’s maybe quite a middle class thing to have a daily glass of nice wine? It seems common amongst my peers who are all quite high flying, successful, middle class people.

They would rarely drink heavily,

Drinking at that level is not healthy or normal. I had a very similar experience with my DH OP. I also liked a drink but like many others on this thread only a couple of nights a week socially (in hindsight I still was a binge drinker and could put away far too much) but my DH was an every day drinker. Occasionally we would argue after alcohol. His drinking made him a different person to be around and I basically begged him to stop for years. It came to a head during lockdown when he would start drinking earlier and earlier in the day. I felt I was not living with the man I married anymore so I gave him an ultimatum and he stopped (as did I). To be honest I regret giving him the ultimatum because he now doesn’t drink but he had not come to that in an organic way and so he is a bit lost at sea with it although he is working on himself it has taken a long time for him to recognise and accept that there are deeper issues and reasons he drank.

I tend to find attitudes can be beyond the usually level of puritanical here.

I think it's better to have a couple/a few days a week where I've doesn't drink. That one should generally try and keep ones alcohol intake to 14 ish units. That one has to keep an eye on the calories consumed via alcohol.

But I also think it tastes bloody lovely and e.g. having wine and some nice food etc is a really lovely way to spend an evening, and I'd definitely like to do that at least once every couple of weeks.

On top of that, I think there are rituals associated with alcohol that people value. (Hiss of a can, the ritual of preparing a drink, the fact it comes in a nice glasses, the fact it signals time to wind down.) Plus the fact that often it tastes nicer than the very sweet drinks you often get in terms of non-alcoholic options.

So what's the best way of balancing that? For me it's about having decent non-alcoholic options in the house (even if that's expensive, they're still less expensive than alcohol). So e.g. Adnams ghost ship is a great non alcoholic beer you could get as a family, I understand lots of people like lucky saint and Guinness 0.0 is meant to be very good. And that then might free up a few alcohol free nights a week to then mean one can enjoy a date night without it being OTT in terms of overall consumption.

I used to drink a bottle every night.. My DH used to drink 4-6 pints a night and really go for it on a weekend. But for me I felt like if he drank, I had to drink. The more i drank the more I worried about my drinking.

He had a bit of a scare at an MOT at the GP surgery. He cut right down which gave me the strength to cut right down too. We now drink 3 nights a week I believe and no way the volume we did before.

We both had parents who liked a good drink, and not one to put labels on things, I do think we were functioning alcoholics. I used to always feel ill, if I got a cold or bug I would have it for weeks, I had put on weight. I feel so much better now. They do say that it is a disease and addictive personalities can be addictive. I do believe this as I have a brother who now drinks a lot and my DH has sibling's who are all big drinkers, 1 unfortunately is going to drink himself to death, but there is no getting through to him.

Totally agree with this. He knows he drinks too much so he's defensive. The British attitude to alcohol is hugely problematic- loads of people will drink daily so to them it is normal - but it'll still increase their risk of heart disease, stroke, dementia, multiple different cancers & alcoholism.

Both the friend and your DH are alchoholics.

I just wanted to second this very strongly.

It is very little to go on so I could be off the mark, but your OP sounds as though you are a bit unsure of your own beliefs/experience and are questioning whether you are justified in your own opinion (despite having seen family members struggle with alcohol).

Your feelings are right FOR YOU and if you have no urge or desire to drink more, don't.

I stopped drinking years ago because I don't like how alcohol impacts my behaviour or my next day. I am lucky in that I rarely encounter anyone who questions my decision or "insists" on me having a drink - but as a general rule, those "insisters" are boundary pushers and very bad news.

Maybe it would be helpful to have a think about what you are comfortable and happy with, and practise your "no, thank you" and "I don't want anymore, but you carry on if you want to" so that you are firm in your own boundaries.

Well they just pour it and drink it...it's not hard.

I agree op, this is the bit that would be ringing alarm bells for me. I don't get 'drinking alcohol' as an activity in and of itself - that's a really worrying attitude. It's more normal in young people who want to get pissed.
I don't think there's anything you can do at this point though if he's adamant his drinking isn't an issue.

I think part of the issue is now the strength of alcohol. 30 odd years ago an average bottle of non fortified wine was around 6% and an average ale was 3%. Now an average bottle of wine is around 12% and an average ale 5.5%. In health terms the greater the strength the less you should be drinking. But I think it takes a while for habits to catch up. I find it hard to find a low alcohol wine. Dh likes alcohol free beer. I wish wine makers would go back to lower strength wines, and just leave the fortified wines at higher strength not your average bottle of plonk.