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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that after COL change expectations have to change

271 replies

EuclidianGeometryFan · 03/03/2025 15:59

If you are a couple in "professional" or middle-to-highish income jobs, say between £70k to £100k joint family income, is it now unreasonable to expect to raise two children in a middle-class lifestyle in the south?

Example of a couple with a 3 bed house, run one car, two children in primary, so still need after-school and holiday childcare, have a dog.
Would you expect to afford a few coffees each week, a couple of meals out or takeaways each month, a couple of TV subscriptions, a nice holiday abroad, or perhaps a better car instead of the holiday - and not to have to count the pennies when shopping or turn the heating off to save money?

Or is this too much to expect?

Would it be more reasonable nowadays to not afford the coffees and meals, not afford the dog, only cheap camping holidays in UK, old car, no TV subscriptions?
Even when the children are in secondary and no longer need childcare, you then have to worry about helping them afford uni or house deposit or driving lessons.

(On the plus side, at least you own your own house into retirement.)

I think our idea of what a "professional middle-class" lifestyle should be like has to permanently change. With the cost of childcare and housing, we just can't live at the standard we used to.

OP posts:
keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:31

Exactly times have always been changing thank god we're not living in the black death times. Or world war one. How would these people cope?

This is such a reductive view. Society should progress..

Anxioustealady · 04/03/2025 19:35

SouthernTip · 04/03/2025 11:42

I think that is unfair and a very broad stereotype.

I'm about to retire.

I've worked for 36 years without a break ( except maternity). Long hours, stressful role. I have the same contract I started out with. I returned to work after each maternity leave, to keep my contract. I was left with £30 per week after paying childcare and travel at that time.

Prior to marriage I saved and saved so that I had money to put into a house. Few holidays, few nights out, careful spending. No new car only what I had saved to buy. No loans.

During my marriage, bought a wreck of a house and around a full time job, baby/toddlers we renovated it fully over a three year period, living standards were awful. 15% mortgage rate too.

DH left for someone else. Divorced and started again. Smaller house. Couldn't move away or make any exciting decisions, like take a career break, as I had three small children to responsible for.

Second hand clothes & Christmas presents for the kids, cheap cars. Low cost holidays, if at all. Saved for everything we needed.

In later life I've met someone else. He too is divorced, sharing the assets of the marriage with his wife. Not enough for either to buy another property.

It isn't always the ‘lucky’ life you portray. Hard work, managing finances, making cuts to buying.

I don’t mean this rudely, but is working for 36 years (including maternity leave) a lot?

It could be 16-52, or 24-60. You seem to be saying you worked very hard and made sacrifices, but most young people will not be able to work 36 years and then retire. There probably won't be a state pension, they'll have to be nearly 70 to get it if there is. They'll have to study for years to get decent jobs, and then have expensive student loans to pay back, whilst trying to save a house deposit and putting off having children because of expensive nursery fees.

This just backs up that it's worse now for younger generations.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:38

I don’t mean this rudely, but is working for 36 years (including maternity leave) a lot

I would love to retire after 36 yrs!

Scrubberdubber · 04/03/2025 19:39

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:31

Exactly times have always been changing thank god we're not living in the black death times. Or world war one. How would these people cope?

This is such a reductive view. Society should progress..

Yes but it doesn't always. Empires rise and fall.
Just because your parents were well off doesn't automatically mean you have a right to be too.

How funny it is seeing thread after thread of people moaning they had pony lessons and boarding school growing up and now aren't living as well as their parents did.
Welcome to the real world 90% of people never experienced those things to begin with.

latetothefisting · 04/03/2025 19:40

OddBoots · 04/03/2025 17:09

On a lot of pension threads there is talk of how many currently retired people started work younger so started paying tax/NI earlier than many younger (obviously there are exceptions) and here we can talk about how jobs need us to stay in education longer than jobs a generation ago.

Two sides of the same coin.

this is a fair point
my mum left school and went straight into full time work at 16 and my dad at 18
for my grandfathers (grandmothers didn't work other than odd jobs here and there) it was 14.
Compare to my siblings who all went to uni and didn't start working full time until 21/22 (and friends who did PHDs etc would be up to 25, 26), that does add up.
Probably still not to the extent that it will make up for the later retirement
(grandparents retired at 50, parents at 60, I'm only 36 so will probably be at least 70 before I get state pension), but it does close the gap a bit.

Scrubberdubber · 04/03/2025 19:44

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:31

Exactly times have always been changing thank god we're not living in the black death times. Or world war one. How would these people cope?

This is such a reductive view. Society should progress..

You say my view is reductive I say your view is ignorant. You really never heard of the Roman empire? Or studied much history at all?

neverwakeasleepingbaby · 04/03/2025 19:46

Well I personally think about the Roman Empire on a daily basis

Frowningprovidence · 04/03/2025 19:55

Scrubberdubber · 04/03/2025 19:44

You say my view is reductive I say your view is ignorant. You really never heard of the Roman empire? Or studied much history at all?

Why do you think people just got on with it without moaning though.

I mean we are all just getting on with it.

I'm sure the average roman had a right whinge if they lost thier villa with the lovely mosaics and wine

It's just now, rather than moaning to our neighbour, we have mumsnet.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:57

You really never heard of the Roman empire? Or studied much history at all?

I've never read anything with regards to the Romans that implied that everyone was happy with their lot & didn't hope for better. Can you link to something that says otherwise @Scrubberdubber?

ConsuelaHammock · 04/03/2025 19:58

It’s really only in the last 30/40 years that those earning an average salary feel that they are owed a very comfortable lifestyle. We have been on this earth for millennia and life has never been easier than it is today. People really do like to complain too much. You are not owed an annual holiday or a new car simply because you go to work.
Everyone’s normal will be different. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those who make bad decisions or do life the wrong way round and then complain it’s not working out the way they hoped.
Education, house / marriage then children in a committed long term relationship. Anything less is just asking for trouble.

Scrubberdubber · 04/03/2025 20:00

Frowningprovidence · 04/03/2025 19:55

Why do you think people just got on with it without moaning though.

I mean we are all just getting on with it.

I'm sure the average roman had a right whinge if they lost thier villa with the lovely mosaics and wine

It's just now, rather than moaning to our neighbour, we have mumsnet.

I mean fair enough.
I'm just observing that when I read these threads most posters seem to have had really well off childhoods and assume that that was normal for the time or "middle class" then they go on to describe something that's more upper than middle anything.
In a way I am also moaning about the moaning we are all free to moan as much as we please I suppose

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:01
  • Yes but it doesn't always. Empires rise and fall. Just because your parents were well off doesn't automatically mean you have a right to be too. *

When in modern times has society not progressed or advanced? Who is demanding they should be well off? What I read is young people who are annoyed about paying into a system that isn't working for them.

How funny it is seeing thread after thread of people moaning they had pony lessons and boarding school growing up and now aren't living as well as their parents did. Welcome to the real world 90% of people never experienced those things to begin with.

I certainly didn't have either of those things.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/03/2025 20:02

So many posters saying they wish young people would stop moaning and accept that sometimes life doesn’t get better for successive generations.

Is this what you want and hope for for your kids and grandkids? To just accept life being shit and no prospect of it improving? And that being fine because at least we’re not in the Black Plague?

Fuck me that’s depressing.

Most of us aren’t whinging over not having ponies, either, but access to the housing market and the ability to have kids. But I guess according to your world vision that’s far too much to expect (despite it being possible for our parents) and we should just be happy we’re not in the trenches?

ConsuelaHammock · 04/03/2025 20:03

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 19:31

Exactly times have always been changing thank god we're not living in the black death times. Or world war one. How would these people cope?

This is such a reductive view. Society should progress..

Why should society progress? People are people and it has been survival of the fittest since humans first walked the earth. 2025 doesn’t change that fact

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:04

You say my view is reductive I say your view is ignorant.

It's completely reductive to counter "I'm sick of working and spending all my money on rent & want some security" or "we work but can't added dc" with "it was shit during the black death". I don't think i'm the ignorant one 😆

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:05

Why should society progress?

Why shouldn't society progress?

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:06

it has been survival of the fittest since humans first walked the earth. 2025 doesn’t change that fact

That's not the view of the NHS...

ConsuelaHammock · 04/03/2025 20:06

Frowningprovidence · 04/03/2025 19:55

Why do you think people just got on with it without moaning though.

I mean we are all just getting on with it.

I'm sure the average roman had a right whinge if they lost thier villa with the lovely mosaics and wine

It's just now, rather than moaning to our neighbour, we have mumsnet.

Average romans didn’t live in villas with mosaics!? They lived in crappy flats and had very little. There have only ever been a small few at the top of the pyramid.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:07

Is this what you want and hope for for your kids and grandkids? To just accept life being shit and no prospect of it improving? And that being fine because at least we’re not in the Black Plague?

It's batshit

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:09

It's also bullshit as we need those young people working & paying taxes.

Frowningprovidence · 04/03/2025 20:09

ConsuelaHammock · 04/03/2025 20:06

Average romans didn’t live in villas with mosaics!? They lived in crappy flats and had very little. There have only ever been a small few at the top of the pyramid.

Fair point. But maybe they didn't notice the fall of the empire so they had less to moan about.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:10

@ConsuelaHammock do you disagree with pension credit? should medication stop prolonging people's lives at a certain age if they can't be cured?

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:12

it's a slippery slope but I suppose the gov can win over the public with a catchy slogan such as "you might die earlier than planned but it's better than WW1".

ConsuelaHammock · 04/03/2025 20:13

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:06

it has been survival of the fittest since humans first walked the earth. 2025 doesn’t change that fact

That's not the view of the NHS...

And we all know how successful the NHS is atm! We only cared enough to setup the NHS less than a century ago. Says a lot about the human race.

keyboardtypo · 04/03/2025 20:14

My history is rusty but didn't the Roman Empire fall in part due to aggressive taxation & a widening inequality gap?