So upset at school offer

[kathjee]

Actually sat here crying, sounds so silly. But DS got his third choice, which I was never keen on and is far away.

All his friends got 1st choice and so happy and messaging in the watsapp grp. He's going to be gutted when he gets home from school.

I know we can appeal but iv also heard they are rarely successful. Can anyone help or advise re appeals pls? I feel like we always have such bad luck in these things, without sounding cliche it does always seem to be us who don't get first choices etc 😭.

Yep, plase accept the place OP so you have a back up just in case you aren't successful in the waiting list and appeal. It most definitely does NOT put you to the back of the queue and will have no negative bearing on your appeal whatsoever. Accepting the place is one of the most important things you can do and is always the first piece of advice given by admissions experts.

This is very, very wrong.
Do not follow this advice.

Sigh. Which isn’t the case with phase transfers. It’s a different admissions appeal process. I work in a secondary. We have 240 places. We had 1809 applications this year. There are currently over 300 people on the waiting list. As of last check 8 appeals since spots realised at midday. Not one has rounds. It doesn’t apply big for phase transfers. If you want to source something that proves me wrong go for it.

What they said.

That was awful advice.

No, that's definitely not true. It's been illegal to do that since 2006. The LEA sends your application to all the schools you select without telling the school what preference order you put them in. The schools reply with their applicants ranked according to their application criteria. The LEA then allocates you a space at the school which which is highest on your list which also listed you as being offered a space according to their criteria.

Please read this.

www.gov.uk/schools-admissions/appealing-a-schools-decision

Surely you know why this school is the best fit for your child. If you don’t already do know why it’s the best fit -specifically- then it’s just your preferred school, and you have to a) accept you didn’t meet the distance etc criteria and b) lots can change so going on the wait list could result in him getting a place before October half term.

I don't see any need for the 'sigh' tbh. Your own link says "If your reasons for your child to be admitted outweigh the school’s reasons for not admitting any more children at all, your appeal will be upheld." By 'phase transfers' do you mean the transition into Year 7 from primary school? If not, I think we may be talking at cross purposes. However, for the appeals process for Year 7 places in secondary school, everything I have ever read on this forum, including by plenty of admissions experts including @prh47bridge, has said that what I and @RafaistheKingofClay said is correct. I haven't said anything about rounds and I'm not trying to argue anything about that, just that it isn't purely about errors in the admissions process for secondary school admissions.

Lots apply for a state place, take a private school option and then don’t tell the LEA so the place is empty, for 3 weeks at start of term, after this point it can be released.

so. Private school parents, please remember to withdraw your interest in a school place as soon as you have accepted your final school choice. Let someone else have that place before term starts

No you are wrong. You might work in a school but you don’t seem to understand how appeals work.

Infant class size appeals are the only ones that can only be won if you can show that the admitting authority has made a mistake that denied your child a place or the decision not to admit was not rational.

The LA can admit over your PAN of 240 in the case of an ECHP or using FAP but an independent appeals panel can also decide that the school would be less disadvantaged by admitting a few children over that 240 than a particular child would be by not being admitted. That child would not need and EHCP or to be one of the groups covered by the FAP.

Because it’s infuriating when people are giving advice when they clearly don’t work in the system.

Think about it logically, when do you draw the line. Because your argument would apply to every single child that didn’t get their first choice. They don’t hear those appeals for phase transfers. You have to be able to prove they didn’t stick to their admission code.

Only if the school does their own admissions. The LEA does out admissions - they rank ours and we get sent a completed list.

edit to add - this is in response to the sentence about the LEA sending applicant list to the school

1. If your reasons for your child to be admitted outweigh the school’s reasons for not admitting any more children at all, your appeal will be upheld.

That’s labelled itself as 1 but it’s point number 5 on your link. You are thinking of the list of reasons under the heading Infant Class Size appeals which only apply to R, Y1 and Y2 where classes are organised in groups of 30 children.

FAP is a direction made by the LA that the school has to take (and to get onto FAP, there are specific categories). Parents do not appeal against them - and the LA only has to have regard of their preferences, it's not an absolute parental choice. Stating that they cannot meet the needs of a child before the school is named in an EHCP is also not something that a parent appeals against - it's the LA who decide whether to go ahead anyway.

If you deal with applications and/or appeals, presumably you've read the Admissions Code 2021, the Admissions Appeals Code 2022 and had access to something like The Key for School Leaders? If not, I'd suggest you do sharpish.

Do you work professionally in school admissions? This does not relate to phase transfers which I have now said 3 times. This applies to in year admissions and is completely different. Please see my last comment. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

"Because it’s infuriating when people are giving advice when they clearly don’t work in the system"

Oh the irony. It's very frustrating when people are giving out misinformation regardless of where they work! No, I must admit that I don't work in education, but I have a special interest in school admissions and have a very good understanding of how it works. I have read countless threads on appeals on this forum and this is the reason that there are appeals panels- so individual cases can be heard. If an admissions experts tells me I am wrong I will apologise, but I still maintain that it is possible to win a secondary school appeal based on your detriment being greater, as your own link states!

What does any of that have to do with the discussion at hand? We aren’t talking about EHCP’s. We are talking about a poster essentially telling the OP that they will get their first choice unless the school can prove it will negatively affect existing cohort. That is simply not true.

Oh, it's definitely infuriating.

Every parent of a child is entitled to appeal, whether it's their first choice or they didn't make a choice for the school concerned at all before NOD.

And the determiner in a panel is exactly that.

I never said every parent isn’t entitled to appeal, anyone can but it doesn’t mean they have grounds. Hence so many fail.

I'm not an appeal expert by a long stretch, I lost mine for DS, but when appealing you're fighting the twin issues of both "the school could squeeze in a few more without causing issues" which is honestly hard to start with, because they've already been through a rigorous formula to determine how many they can accommodate to set the PAN and then "my child should be the extra child you admit, not any of the other children appealing or the next child on the waitlist"

In my case, I had a child with documented SEN but no EHCP and no local specialist familiar with the schools to write an impact statement. The school we wanted was clearly better for him - not only were some of his friends there (our allocated school had no friends), but the standard way of working with the school met his main needed accommodation so not only were they better able to accommodate him, they could do so in a way that didn't make him different to the other students.

No impact statement naming the school, no dice. We went back on the waitlist and stayed there for a term and a half before we reached the top.

This isn't meant to be disheartening, more encouraging those who are still fighting for their place to stick on the waitlists, because they do move.

If you're referring to me, that isn't what I am saying at all! I know that appeals can be very difficult to win, and it isn't just a case of saying the journey will be difficult/they want to stay with their friends. However, it is NOT the case that it is limited to admissions errors for secondary school admissions- there is some broader scope on detriment. It is up to the panel to judge.

No I am not talking to you. Hence I did not quote you.

3.6.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6335a0c88fa8f506931f6d44/School_Admission_Appeals_Code_2022.pdf

I have covered this elsewhere but there’s the specific wording for you in reference to your position that you can appeal on the basis it won’t negatively impact others.

I’m sorry but I don’t see how that goes against what I’m saying. It says they must proceed to the second stage, not that there is no hope of winning if it wasn’t an admissions error?

2.5 . Admission authorities must not limit the grounds on which an appeal can be made.

3.1 Panels must follow the two stage decision making process below for all appeals except for infant class size appeals

3.2 The panel must consider the following matters in relation to each child that is the subject of an appeal: a) whether the admission arrangements (including the area’s co-ordinated admission arrangements) complied with the mandatory requirements of the School Admissions Code and Part 3 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998; and b) whether the admission arrangements were correctly and impartially applied in the case in question.

3.3 The panel must then decide whether the admission of additional children would prejudice the provision of efficient education or the efficient use of resources.

3.8 The panel must balance the prejudice to the school against the appellant’s case for the child to be admitted to the school.

3.9 In multiple appeals, the panel must not compare the individual cases when deciding whether an appellant’s case outweighs the prejudice to the school. However, where the panel finds there are more cases which outweigh prejudice than the school can admit, it must then compare the cases and uphold those with the strongest case for admission. Where a certain number of children could be admitted without causing prejudice, the panel must uphold the appeals of at least that number of children.

3.10 ...In reaching a decision as to whether or not there would be prejudice the panel may consider the following factors: a) what effect an additional admission would have on the school in the current and following academic years as the year group moves through the school; b) whether any changes have been made to the school’s physical accommodation or organisation since an admission number was originally set for the relevant year group;

So frustrating.