So upset at school offer

[kathjee]

Actually sat here crying, sounds so silly. But DS got his third choice, which I was never keen on and is far away.

All his friends got 1st choice and so happy and messaging in the watsapp grp. He's going to be gutted when he gets home from school.

I know we can appeal but iv also heard they are rarely successful. Can anyone help or advise re appeals pls? I feel like we always have such bad luck in these things, without sounding cliche it does always seem to be us who don't get first choices etc 😭.

My advice would be an appeal is worth it if they have overlooked one of their criteria. If it is just that unfortunately his friends live within the cut off distance to the first choice school and you son doesn't, then an appeal is unlikely to win.

It's such a shame that ALL schools can't be lovely.
That would be the dream.

No need to apologise, it just goes to show the wealth of misinformation out there. I work in a big secondary and would bet good money only two, maybe three of us could describe the admissions process accurately and none of the senior leaders are on that list!

At secondary the appeal criteria are far more broad, it is about detriments.

Reminds me of many, many conversations carefully and patiently explaining to Heads, Governors and SLT exactly how it does work every single year - and then repeating myself at least five times over the next twelve months.

The best ones ask all the questions, listen to the answers and then leave it in the hands of those who know what they are doing.

A colleague's daughter didn't get first choice. They got her onto the waiting list and she gradually moved up. Finally made it into the school at the very last minute.
My nephew has recently moved schools. He originally applied to the school that his sister went to, but decided that another school suited better, so started there in year 9.

Apparently kids who go to private schools are automatically allocated local authority place at school ( in our area anyway) and schools aren’t allowed to remove them until term starts and they don’t turn up!

Kids who go to private schools won’t be allocated a local authority place at school unless their parents have applied for one.

Parents of children at private primary schools may very well apply to state schools as a back up option in case their children don’t get into the desired private secondary school, and then fail to decline the offered state school place if they decide they don’t need it, but that’s not the same as being “automatically allocated a local authority place”.

Wouldn't a CofE school be even more likely to be predominantly white?!

That’s not what they mean by detriment. By detriment they mean, as an example, a deaf child and it’s the only school that has a deaf unit, only school that’s wheelchair accessible etc.

What do you mean? We went through it for our son last year, nothing to do with demerits!

There are very few grounds for appeal and relate to the admissions process not being applied correctly. The issue is parents seem to think it’s for challenging a decision they don’t like. It’s not.

No, not at all, it depends on the area in which you live. It's the same with Catholic state schools and they take non-Catholics, are quite inclusive.

No, not in all areas - Black Majority Churches, Pentecostalism, Baptist churches, etc, are huge and well attended in many areas. CofE admissions policies tend to treat applications from families who attend any church that is a member of Churches Together, the Evangelical Alliance or sometimes other ecumenical organisations as equal.

You're more likely to have greater ethnic diversity by applying a faith criteria than a catchment one as a result.

Detriments not demerits.

They balance the negatives (detriments) to your child not attending with the negatives to the school having to take an extra pupil.

Panel may decide that eg a school can really fit 5 more pupils in and then those appealing with the best case may be admitted.

Things like extra curricular offers, offering a specific language of particular benefit to your child, pastoral support may count. Ofsted grade and GCSE results generally won't. Being with friends and travel won't generally be good enough unless there is a very specific need preferably backed up by experts.

There are people with proper expertise on MN regarding this. What i have written above is broadly right based on everything I have read here over the years.

Primary, Reception-y2 appeals are far more tight than secondary.

Anyone wanting proper appeal advice should post on the Secondary Education board with Appeal in the title.

Even if you had put your second choice first you would not have been offered a place. The computer assesses all your preference to see if you are eligible and offers you the one which is your highest choice, so you were not eligible for either school 1 or school 2.

Find out from the LA why you weren’t offered them, it is worth checking as very occasionally a mistake is made on distance or on another higher criteria, this is unlikely, but it will set your mind at rest.If a mistake has happened with your application then it is likely the LA will offer you a place, though some can be reluctant to get things sorted without a push.

In a few weeks time the waiting lists will open and you need to get yourself on both of them, there is often a lot of movement as people leave the area, accept private places etc. You can also go on the waiting lists for other schools even if you didn’t put them on your original application.

An appeal is another option, look carefully through the websites of both schools, are they offering something which your child already has an aptitude for like a language, or a specific sport, or a drama, maths or computing club, or a school orchestra etc, you need to look for something which the offered school doesn’t offer but which will benefit your child. If you do decide to appeal go on to the MN Secondary Schools page, there are very knowledgeable op people there who sit on panels and can advise you.

One thing you do need to do , and must do, is to accept the place you have been offered. This is to ensure that your child will have a place in September ( though hopefully he will have been offered a place you are happier with by then) . If you turn the place down the LA are under no obligation to help you to find another place. Accepting the place does not mean you can’t go on waiting lists, or appeal, and won’t make any difference to either of those options, it is just to secure a place for him.

And be positive about the offered school, if you let your child sense negativity then it is going to be a very long and painful journey untilSeptember.

That applies for an infant class size appeal but is much broader above year 2. You only need to show that the disadvantage to the child of not being admitted is greater than the disadvantage to the school of admitting 1 extra child.

It’s not at all unusual for children to be admitted after an appeal at secondary.

At last - a sane response.

That is only when dealing with fair access / ehcp. Not phase transfers such as this.

Hi all I have been reading your messages thanks so much. I will be looking on the secondary MN page for help with appeal.

My son came home and we pretended we hadn't read the email. As I said before we never showed preference in front of him so he never had his heart set on any school particularly. So when he saw the school he seemed fine with it and said any is fine.

OH said he seemed upset, so I went to him and asked how are you feeling, he said he's fine and any school was new for him anyway. I said to him the chosen school was a little far and we might appeal and do you want to just trust mum and dad to sort it for you and he said yes please! So he knows we are on it, but not stressing about it at all in front of him. Wer defo on the waiting list so will call them again 1st April. And also put together an appeal.

No, anyone can win an appeal for secondary if they can show that the detriment to their child in not being admitted is greater than the detriment to the school in taking an extra pupil.

Sounds like you’ve handled it well OP. You’ll definitely be on the waiting lists as that is how they’ll shuffle people upwards before the second round. There’ll likely be a fair bit of movement as people accept/decline places and you might find you’re offered a place then anyway.

Whatever you do, Do not accept the place and then appeal - hold out for your preferred school. If you accept they will put you to the back of the queue.
Gather as much evidence as possible, close friendships, any times he has needed help from school especially if it's related to feelings and wellbeing.
Good luck

This is dangerously wrong. Accepting the place does NOT affect your place on the waitlist or your chance of appeal in the slightest, and refusing the allocated place will mean you will have to either homeschool or accept a place at a school with spaces.

The LA is required to allocate you a space at a suitable school, it has done that. If you reject the place and your appeal fails (which most do) then it has fulfilled its duty of care and you will be allocated whatever no-one else wanted.

No that is wrong. Declining the place puts you at a disadvantage , the LA is not obliged to come up with an alternative and may leave you with no place. Appeal panel may take a dim view.

Whatever you do, IGNORE this utter nonsense.

If you don't accept, your offer could be withdrawn and if any appeal is unsuccessful, your kid could end up with nowhere at all to go to in September.