So upset at school offer

[kathjee]

Actually sat here crying, sounds so silly. But DS got his third choice, which I was never keen on and is far away.

All his friends got 1st choice and so happy and messaging in the watsapp grp. He's going to be gutted when he gets home from school.

I know we can appeal but iv also heard they are rarely successful. Can anyone help or advise re appeals pls? I feel like we always have such bad luck in these things, without sounding cliche it does always seem to be us who don't get first choices etc 😭.

You don't- this isn't how appeals work. Panels will understand that people need to put a backup optipn on the form and a school you dislike that is nearby is better than being allocated none of your options and ending up being allocated a school you also dislike that's miles away. You are appealing FOR the school you want, not against the school you have been allocated or another one you listed on the form.

Yes this is spot on @Vynalbob

I know of people who only listed the school they wanted, thinking it would mean they would have to be given it, then didn't get it and were allocated a place at a poorer performing school 15-20 mins (or so) drive away, which was basically all that was left after everyone got places at 1st /2nd/ 3rd etc choices.

Not RTFT but you have got one of your choices. Why did you choose it if you don’t want your child to go there. I don’t understand the tears when you added the school to the application.

You don’t even need to RTFT, just the two posts above yours, and you would have an answer to this rather silly question.

Will you have to pay DS fare to school yourself or is free transport pass given?

If it is not a burden on your budget to send him to another school, it may turn out quite well for him. He will make new friends and have something to talk about to his old friends, if those friendships continue. It may be that away from his friends he may do very well at school. You could argue they were competition for one another, but not necessarily.

If the expense is too much, you can appeal on those grounds.

This happened with us (it was primary school) we was given a school that wasn't even on our list and although it was in our town, it was one of the furthest from us. We got our local MP involved and was honest and said it would affect her being away from her infant school friends. I spent some time online researching how to word the appeal in a fair, but stern way. We won our appeal - I definitely think writing to our MP and giving our honest reasons was what tipped the boat. Good luck x

As a matter of interest, if your DS had been admitted to the C of E school, would you have allowed him to join in their assembly in the mornings, and allowed him to attend scripture classes, or would you have asked for him to be excluded from those?

Do you think you did the right thing to raise his hopes? Wouldn't it have been better, if he didn't mind where he went, to have let him go to the new school and see his reaction after a time there?

Now he thinks that there might be something wrong with the school, and you are trying to protect him from whatever is wrong. You will probably disagree with me, but to ask the DS if he is satisfied, then indicate that he should be worried is hardly confidence building, is it?

Have you taken him to the school to see what it is like, and meet the teachers who will be teaching him? You don't have to wait for an invitation. You can ask for a visit. I would be very surprised if they refused you.

He might go to the new school worried about what it will be like because his parents didn't want him to go there. You must find out about the school first, then you will have something to discuss with him.

No, you cannot win an appeal on the basis of the cost of getting your child to and from school.

Ahhh I think your mistake was putting the church school first with no realistic way of getting in, the one near us you need 25 weeks of church attendance a year since year 1 of primary school for the child and one parent confirmed by the church you attend (via qr code it’s very technical!) kids this year got in with anywhere around of 10 weeks attendance a year confirmed and additional ‘points’ for living within 2 miles, apparently some kids from miles away also got in with basically perfect weekly church attendance. The second one you’re not in the catchment for and with the other achool in the area being church based it will be massively in demand therefore you got your third choice. Did you send ds to an out of catchment Primary school say in the next village or something because it’s interesting all his pals got in to the second school by being in catchment and you didn’t? This is the issue with picking ‘better’ primary schools further away, you then get burned on high school admissions

If the school you’ve got is ok and the only issue is that his friends aren’t going and it’s a bit further away then don’t stress too much just try and big it up to him and make him feel confident, the journey won’t be that big of a deal I work at a school where about 2/3 of the kids get long bus journeys or trains and there’s no marked difference between those who live 0.5 miles away and those who get 2 trains in. I actually think the ones who travel independently from y7 end up being a bit more initiative driven and independent and less reliant on mum bringing their PE kit if they forget it kind of thing.

Waiting lists move and you should probably just sit it out. I know someone who got into a very in demand school the day before the start of term.

I know people who appealed and then got in coincidentally on waiting lists, but tell everyone that the school was won over by their arguments even though they weren't criteria for admission (good at sport or wants to be with friends). It was just the waiting list. You can't always believe people who claim to have won appeals.

Remember friendship groups change when they go to secondary school. My son and his best friend met the first day of year 7 and they are 20 now and still close. He is no longer friends with anyone who he went to primary school with. He is still friends with a few from secondary school though.
If your son is confident like you say he will have no issues making friends and there will be others there that are like your son.
I know it doesn’t help the disappointment though, fingers crossed they take notice of your appeal.

I oversee admissions in the school I work at. Definitely try to appeal. If you applied on time and live in catchment it is likely your appeal will be successful. The school will have a PAN. Often schools go over and theirs is often movement in a year group or things change over summer and a place becomes available so definitely apply to go on waiting list.

Decades ago - many decades ago - the thing which caused so much strife was the 11+ examination to determine whether children went to a grammar school or secondary school, Grammar schools taught academic subjects and the secondary schools taught up to pre apprenticeship examinations.

Many parents were not satisfied with that. Now secondary schools are more or less the same, with 6th form academic courses.

Is there a new contention which is replacing the old argument about choosing schools? If so, it must be affecting children and parents the same way now.

Will there ever be a scheme which will satisfy everyone?

In the midst of it all there are 11 year old children who cannot understand what the fighting is all about. They are too young to understand, and if the parent's application is unsuccessful, the 11 year old is faced with going to a school the parent doesn't like, and fills the young child with some sort of fear and trepidation as to what may be at the school the parent doesn't like.

Wouldn't it be better if the parents didn't tell the child what they were doing?

It would be interested to see what choice parents who can no longer afford the VAT on private education have in state schools.

If you applied on time and live in catchment it is likely your appeal will be successful

What on earth makes you say this @WhatsWorkLifeBalance ? If you genuinely work in admissions in some capacity then you should know that “applying on time” and “being in catchment” aren’t arguments that win an apes for a school that is currently at or over PAN

Wouldn't it be better if the parents didn't tell the child what they were doing?

Again, what? An 11 year old is perfectly capable of understanding and having a view on their schooling. They may not be given the final day but they all know primary is coming to an end and that there will be a potential choice of secondaries. They will have gone to open evenings etc

What would be better generally would be if parents talked up all schools and made it clear that any school is not a disaster.

By all means then say you prefer A over B but keep making it clear all schools are OK (even if some are really not).

I agree with this totally. However, I think op handled it well by saying it was a bit far away and would he be ok if they tried to get somewhere closer. No reflection on the school itself, just the distance. He sounds a very sensible young lad and will cope with whatever happens as long as everybody stays positive.

We had this with my DD. We got school 3. We stayed on the waiting list for schools 1 and 2 and only went down on the list as more children were added. We appealed which was one of the most stressful things I have ever done. The appeal failed. My DD eventually got a place at school 1 after the first term. We only got that as it was found that a child's parents had lied about their address and they got their place fraudulently.

@WhatsWorkLifeBalance What utter rubbish. There were 90 appeals at my DD's school. There were none that were successful.

We have had several people on this thread who claim to work in admissions but who have given incorrect advice, including claiming that appeals can only be won if there was a mistake, or claiming that appeals can be won with arguments that would actually carry no weight. Sadly, I can believe these people do work in admissions. I have come across many cases where parents have been given extremely poor advice from people working in admissions, either for schools or for LAs. I have also come across cases where admission authorities have made arguments in appeals that really should not have been made and which demonstrated a lack of understanding of the rules.

Parents expect teachers to know the system, but many don't, including many head teachers. That expectation may be unreasonable. However, it is not, in my view, unreasonable to expect those who work in admissions to understand how the system works and how appeals work.

The school I work in has only had ONE successful appeal since 2018!!!

I think it was something like the child wanted to attend a school nearer a family member who they were staying with due to family issues or something. Not sure if true but it won the appeal no others have.

another local school had 23 appeals heard last year and all failed (or ‘were refused’)

I think appeal is harder than applying for an mid year move half way through y7 or even y8

another school near me was so oversubscribed the furthest distance away a place was offered was 0.6 miles, that’s crazy to me!

Why is it likely to be successful?
What if 10, 20 or 30 families appeal.
Are you sure you oversee admissions?

Get on the waiting list and then wait.
Also appeal.
Some families will move between now and the start of the school year - some will go to private education.
I have offered families a place the day before term starts and in some cases after when other children are firstly missing in education and it is discovered their family has returned to a home country.