So upset at school offer

[kathjee]

Actually sat here crying, sounds so silly. But DS got his third choice, which I was never keen on and is far away.

All his friends got 1st choice and so happy and messaging in the watsapp grp. He's going to be gutted when he gets home from school.

I know we can appeal but iv also heard they are rarely successful. Can anyone help or advise re appeals pls? I feel like we always have such bad luck in these things, without sounding cliche it does always seem to be us who don't get first choices etc 😭.

It is most definitely not true, and this is definitely not why the OP did not get the place. The school do not know where you placed them and cannot prioritise based in this. Many posters on this thread have explained the equal preference system and that you should always list the schools in your genuine order of preference. The equal preference system has been law in England since 2007 I believe and was even in place in my LEA when I applied to secondary school (in 2003!) so all these “you have to put a school first” rumours are from way way way back!

There's always an element of luck because you have no control or knowledge of who else is applying. The year we applied for primary, one of the schools near us had a catchment of 217meters.
They offered 38 out of 40 reserved places to children who have parents whose god-bothering is the right denomination, and another 16 places to non-religious families who already have children at the school, leaving just 6 places (out of an intake of 60) for anyone else.
In previous years the number of religious and sibling places has been lower, it's just luck.

I'm interested that people say order of preference doesn't matter. We were told (Kent) that it very much does matter, particularly when it comes to the first choice. We don't have a religious secondary in my area but do have grammars which are similar in that you are unlikely to get in if you don't meet certain criteria (be it faith or passing a test). We were told specifically by a number of schools that if a child hadn't passed the Kent test they shouldn't put grammar as their first choice because they wouldn't get it and at that point would be far less likely to be given their second choice than they would have been if it had been put as a first choice.

If first choice is a CofE school I would have thought there’s not a lot of ethnic diversity, therefore it wouldn’t suit a child that needs a broader ethnic mix of peers so wouldn’t be grounds for appeal. Yes there are Christians of all backgrounds but let’s be honest, CofE is mainly white.

In small villages, sure, but you’ll find in many parts of the country that it’s newer African communities who are keeping CofE churches going while rates of attendance among white British families decline.

They lied / you misunderstood.

Schools are not allowed by law to discriminate against someone for putting a school second. If you qualify you qualify. The only way you wouldn't get it if you qualify would be if you get the school you put first.

Note however the alternative. If you put a comp as 1 then the grammar as 2 then if you qualify for the comp you won't get the grammar even if you pass.

just to confirm what others have said - it absolutely makes no difference to getting into school 2 that you put the CofE school at choice 1. You still wouldn't have got it if it was your number 1 choice.
I would go on the waiting list for school 2, forget about school 1, there is a lot of movement between now and September.

you have been misinformed.....that's the secondary school desperately trying to get you to put then 1st!!

This.

Putting a grammar school as first choice is pointless if your child hasn't passed the test, but it won't reduce your chances of getting your second choice.

And every year there are some parents who put their local school as first choice and the outstanding school they really want as second choice because they believe this rubbish about first choices getting priority. All they are doing is guaranteeing that they won't get a place at the school they really wanted.

absolutely this.....and what an acquaintance did.... put a school miles away as first choice that they didn't want and then their favourite schools 2 and 3. Got choice 1 and was amazed!!!

First choices are allocated first. Then if there are any spaces left they are offered to second choice people. So yes, there are bound to be people at your second choice who live further away than you. You probably would have got the second choice school had you put it first.

There will be lots of movement before September and some after. Make sure you are on waiting lists for both your first and second choice schools.

This is utterly wrong.

Sorry your DS didn't get the place he wanted.

Take the advice from the local authority and do your own research.

We were involved for the first time in 22 years with our Ukrainian 10 year old - she fortunately got her first place. It was quite hard work.

But it took work from the week she arrived 20 months ago.

So to all those reading this to parents of children in Y4 and 5. Read the entrance criteria really carefully. They can also change from year to year.

They are varied with mention/non mention of siblings, distance, feeder schools, Church membership, staff at the school.

If Church membership /attendance is required and you are happy to do this/are a believer then make sure you go to the correct Church.

Do not use fictitious references naming long dead/moved on priests.

What got one of your children into the school of your choice a year or two ago may not work for a younger sibling a year of two from now.

When you say your second choice was within catchment and religion, is it a Catholic school and are you practicing Catholics? If so, give their admissions department a call immediately, if not sooner. I work in appeals and, in my experience, Catholic schools will bend over backwards to accommodate Catholic children.

Just to reiterate what others have said, most local authorities don't downgrade your application (for want of a better word) because you've put a school as your second choice. If you meet the criteria and weren't offered a place at your first choice, your second choice is given exactly the same weight as your first, and so on and so forth.

Also - do not try to game the system by just putting down 1 choice.

If you don't get that choice you then go to the bottom of the pile.

You cannot get your second or third choice as you did not let anyone know what they were.

Ten people, five hot chocolates, five orange squashes:

Please put your drinks in order of preference.

Here you go <hands out drinks>

One person 'oh, but I don't want hot chocolate'

Another 'I don't want orange squash

<checks the list> 'you said you wanted it, though?'

'I thought if I put what I really wanted second, I'd get it'

In this analogy, there is actually the ability to swap around (even though the chocolate's a bit cold and the ice has melted in the orange) - but if there were six chocolates and four oranges, somebody's going to be disappointed.

No, first choices are not allocated first. That isn't how the system works at all. It is illegal for any school or LA in England to do that. OP would not have got the second choice school if she had put it first.

totally incorrect about the 1st and 2nd choices
Correct about there being movement if you stay on the waiting list

It’s not luck, though? There’s clear criteria for how they work out the order of priority.

I may be wrong, just working on what friends of ours were told a few years ago. They told us that Children going to private school have to be allocated a state school place and that once they decline them then they are open for the waitlist.
Regardless of whether that’s true or not, get on the waitlist for the school that you want asap just to be sure you are in with a chance. It maybe that the school you have chosen is over subscribed if it’s a good school where his friends first choice not so much.
And tbh as long as you don’t overplay it, it won’t probably be an issue for him either. He will just be excited that he’s got a new school and by September won’t even think about it not being his first choice.

Criteria 1 will be allocated first normally schools have at least 5 admission points (SEN/children of staff/siblings/distance etc) so yes siblings will be allocated places before distance but where you preference it doesn’t matter.

algorithms would I assume do it all so the actual cross reference between your preferences and the admission criteria.

the only time preferences come into play is it will stop when it reaches a choice on your list that you meet the criteria for. DS would have gotten into 3 schools very easily where we live so my order had to be what we wanted.

How come you put a school on your aren’t happy with? I only put 2 choices down that I would be happy for my son to attend

And if you hadn't qualified for either of those, just as the OP did not qualify for her first two, then you would have been assigned whichever school had space at the end of the process.

You should always put a school where you are almost certain to get a place even if you really don't want it. If you don't and your child doesn't qualify for a place at any of the schools you want, your child will be offered a place at the nearest school with places available. That will be an unpopular school and could be a long way away. It could be a much worse option for your child than the school where you are almost certain to get a place.

You know that doesn't mean they'll definitely allocate one of those schools. If you don't meet the criteria they'll then just allocate any school.