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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
CautiousLurker01 · 03/03/2025 12:43

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 11:26

@CautiousLurker01 "The US, UK etc brokers a deal in which we asked them to give up their nukes in exchange for us coming in to their aid - in recognition that giving them up made them vulnerable"

Can you indicate where this was written in the deal?

It was, IMO,. a pretty useless deal as it didn't spell out the consequences if any of the signatories broke the pact.

Budapest Memorandum. You read it.

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 12:46

For example, if someone is born in Kenya and is a Kenyan citizen but is ethnically English - I mean - how are they meant to say that?

This is an interesting example to use as many white Kenyans have, for decades, fought to be recognised as Kenyan and not English. They are described as white-Kenyan not English-Kenyan. There is no such thing as an English ethnicity.

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 12:53

CautiousLurker01 · 03/03/2025 12:43

Budapest Memorandum. You read it.

I have read it and noticed this :

U.S. State Department lawyers made a distinction between "security guarantee" and "security assurance", referring to the security guarantees that were desired by Ukraine in exchange for non-proliferation.
"Security guarantee" would have implied the use of military force in assisting its non-nuclear parties attacked by an aggressor while "security assurance" would simply specify the non-violation of these parties' territorial integrity

In the end, a statement was read into the negotiation record that the (according to the U.S. lawyers) lesser sense of the English word "assurance" would be the sole implied translation for all appearances of both terms in all three language versions of the statement.

So my interpretation is, that no country that was a party to this Treaty can expect other NATO members to come to it's aid if it is not in NATO. Just that the signatories should respect each others territorial integrity.

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 13:04

@kattaduck "And nobody wanted to support Blair during Iraq because everybody knew it was clearly a hoax."

The UK Parliament did.

juggleit · 03/03/2025 13:11

spuddy4 · 02/03/2025 08:54

Completely agree. I don't understand why people think it's unacceptable to want to know where the money has gone.

You need to look up the cost of weapons - off the scale ££££££££!!!! Wars are expensive not just in lost lives.

Do not take on that tin hat view of Zelensky taking war money:That's the Russian propaganda they want you to believe. Many top analyst have concluded Z’s whiter than white.

OneAmberFinch · 03/03/2025 13:39

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 12:46

For example, if someone is born in Kenya and is a Kenyan citizen but is ethnically English - I mean - how are they meant to say that?

This is an interesting example to use as many white Kenyans have, for decades, fought to be recognised as Kenyan and not English. They are described as white-Kenyan not English-Kenyan. There is no such thing as an English ethnicity.

Sure - it's a bit complicated, and colonial groups have different relationships with the origin country, I do know this as it's my own background. But people use different language for different purposes and it's sometimes useful to be "white Kenyan" and sometimes to be "ethnically English" and the fact is that people do know what you mean. Compare, for example, white South Africans who often call themselves "English" instead of "Afrikaans" - even while swearing at the English rugby team.

To say nothing of the £££ made by DNA companies who gladly sell people DNA tests telling people their ancestry is "English/Irish" - honest question - what should they write in that box if English is to be re-defined?

juggleit · 03/03/2025 13:55

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 01:09

What? I watched it and he didn't insult them, quite the opposite. I'm wondering why you came to that conclusion.

Zelenskyy wasnt gracious enough - he spoke over them quite a bit and they did to him also but he’s the ‘little guy’ in their eyes and there wasn't enough ego stroking.

He didn't play the game that every other leader plays with him.
As other posters have pointed out - he should of spoke through a translator as a lot of his sentiment was lost or misinterpreted.
By all accounts though, Z is coming out over all the winner in the worlds media standing up to another tyrant.

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 14:03

juggleit · 03/03/2025 13:55

Zelenskyy wasnt gracious enough - he spoke over them quite a bit and they did to him also but he’s the ‘little guy’ in their eyes and there wasn't enough ego stroking.

He didn't play the game that every other leader plays with him.
As other posters have pointed out - he should of spoke through a translator as a lot of his sentiment was lost or misinterpreted.
By all accounts though, Z is coming out over all the winner in the worlds media standing up to another tyrant.

It's interesting how people interpret the exact same footage differently. Zelensky was purposefully ambushed and humiliated. He wasn't given a chance to answer questions and it was he who was spoken over.

OneAmberFinch · 03/03/2025 14:07

juggleit · 03/03/2025 13:55

Zelenskyy wasnt gracious enough - he spoke over them quite a bit and they did to him also but he’s the ‘little guy’ in their eyes and there wasn't enough ego stroking.

He didn't play the game that every other leader plays with him.
As other posters have pointed out - he should of spoke through a translator as a lot of his sentiment was lost or misinterpreted.
By all accounts though, Z is coming out over all the winner in the worlds media standing up to another tyrant.

Well, Europe has started talking a lot more about arranging their own defences, which was Trump's goal, so everyone's a winner!

I don't think it's tyrannical per se to not put your own citizens' lives on the line to defend a foreign country you have no particular shared history with.

Europe has that relationship (to some extent), America doesn't.

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 14:13

To say nothing of the £££ made by DNA companies who gladly sell people DNA tests telling people their ancestry is "English/Irish" - honest question - what should they write in that box if English is to be re-defined?

But there's a difference between saying "my ancestors came from England" and saying "I'm English". Based on my dark features and olive skin I suspect my ancestors probably came from elsewhere. Can I call myself English? What % English would I have to get on a DNA test to pass?

The reality is that these concepts are not black and white (no pun intended). You will never be able to draw a clear line on who is and isn't "ethnically English" and it risks becoming racist i.e. the white Germanic royals get to call themselves English but someone who looks "a bit brown" gets told they can't be.

JHound · 03/03/2025 14:38

CautiousLurker01 · 03/03/2025 10:42

I usually agree with KK on most things but in this I don’t. Ukraine used to have significant nuclear capability and would have been able to fend off an incursion from Russia on this basis. The US, UK etc brokers a deal in which we asked them to give up their nukes in exchange for us coming in to their aid - in recognition that giving them up made them vulnerable. We did eff all when Russia moved in on the Crimea, which was Putin testing the waters, failing in our commitment to protect them. We are honour bound to protect them - or give them back their nuclear arms. Given a choice, I’d support them rather than revert to the time of the nuclear arms race.

As with most things in the world - the US/UK are part of the backstory that lead to this. I agree it seems appalling that we should have to send money and potentially troops to fight in this war, but the government considered this risk (and knew it was a risk) when they brokered the deal for Ukraine to denuclearise… but its our government’s fault (specifically the Tories/John Major/Douglas Hurd who were in power at the time) for signing up to the treaty and making these commitments.

Thank you. How are people forgetting this.

MalagaNights · 03/03/2025 14:51

If Z didn't want to sign the mineral deal he shouldn't have gone to the White House pretending that he was going to.

Also the Ukrainian parliament had ratified the deal the day before, so we should remember Z isn't a dictator who can unilaterally decide this for his country. No matter what Trump says or Zelensky thinks.

What he shouldn't do is pretend he's going to sign, then start questioning the USA VP about the point of any diplomacy with Putin in front of the press.

You may agree with Z that it's a rubbish deal and putin can't be trusted, but he has to deal with the reality of the position of the current US administration and the personalities involved.

He cocked up.
Unless his aim was to 'bravely' speak truth to power leave with nothing and then just rely on Europe to support him in either beating Russia or protecting Ukraine.
Which would be a stupid plan.

Ukraine needs the USA, and Europe needs the USA to support Ukraine. That's reality.

All the hugging and solidarity declarations for Ukraine and Z this weekend are very nice and make everyone feel very virtuous being against the baddies, but the reality is Z is going to have to go back and somehow make up to the big bad bullies or we're all fucked.

OneAmberFinch · 03/03/2025 14:54

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 14:13

To say nothing of the £££ made by DNA companies who gladly sell people DNA tests telling people their ancestry is "English/Irish" - honest question - what should they write in that box if English is to be re-defined?

But there's a difference between saying "my ancestors came from England" and saying "I'm English". Based on my dark features and olive skin I suspect my ancestors probably came from elsewhere. Can I call myself English? What % English would I have to get on a DNA test to pass?

The reality is that these concepts are not black and white (no pun intended). You will never be able to draw a clear line on who is and isn't "ethnically English" and it risks becoming racist i.e. the white Germanic royals get to call themselves English but someone who looks "a bit brown" gets told they can't be.

I don't really understand how you can write a sentence about the "white Germanic royals" without acknowledging the concept of ethnic groups?

As I said in a previous post, my own ethnicity is mixed - I mean, I get it, but it's important to me to be able to describe all parts of it. I'm able to do that with the other ethnic groups that make up my ancestry, even though of course it's slightly imprecise because migration and integration didn't only happen to England - just because lines are blurry doesn't mean it's not useful or interesting or meaningful to have rough groupings.

(I think this is a bit off topic now, apologies everyone)

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 03/03/2025 14:57

I've never been asked on any ethnicity monitoring form to tick a "White English" box: it's always White British. Rishi was born in England and is English. There is no such ethnicity as English. It's a nationality within the four home nations which make up the UK.

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 15:00

Needtosoundoffandbreathe · 03/03/2025 14:57

I've never been asked on any ethnicity monitoring form to tick a "White English" box: it's always White British. Rishi was born in England and is English. There is no such ethnicity as English. It's a nationality within the four home nations which make up the UK.

Who are these arbiters of what it means to be English? I don't remember voting for them.

MalagaNights · 03/03/2025 15:01

Thanks for sharing the clip OP I find Konstantin Krisin very knowledgeable and fair on Ukraine.

Weirdly I think the other sane voice at the moment is Peter Mandelson in his role as US ambassador.

I do also think Starmer gets it and knows what's going to have to be done. I usually can't stand him but he's cautiously playing the right game on this.

Unlike most of mumsnet who seem to want us to give nukes to Ukraine and go to war with Russia. It's bloody terrifying how high people get on their moralising that they're prepared to start WW3, bankrupt the country and send all our kids to fight Russia.
Because Trump is a rude man?

gatheryerosebuds · 03/03/2025 15:04

Actually I think English is a race as distinct from Scottish for example. Under the Equality Act you could potentially be discriminated against due to being “English”.
I realise this doesn’t solve the problem of what Englishness actually is!

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 15:06

As I said in a previous post, my own ethnicity is mixed - I mean, I get it, but it's important to me to be able to describe all parts of it

I have no issue with people wanting to identify with various parts of their ancestry. What I take issue with is people trying to police who can and can't claim a certain identity (e.g. "Rishi Sunak is not English"), especially when it's based on skin colour. You might not mean this in a racist way but many people will and this kind of ethnic policing is the foundation of some of the most horrific acts (e.g. "you're not a real German") ever visited on the human race.

Anyway we digress.

MalagaNights · 03/03/2025 15:08

OneAmberFinch · 03/03/2025 14:54

I don't really understand how you can write a sentence about the "white Germanic royals" without acknowledging the concept of ethnic groups?

As I said in a previous post, my own ethnicity is mixed - I mean, I get it, but it's important to me to be able to describe all parts of it. I'm able to do that with the other ethnic groups that make up my ancestry, even though of course it's slightly imprecise because migration and integration didn't only happen to England - just because lines are blurry doesn't mean it's not useful or interesting or meaningful to have rough groupings.

(I think this is a bit off topic now, apologies everyone)

We had this discussion as a family at the weekend based on KKs comment.
It got very heated!

We eventually concluded that there are not clear definitions or descriptors for separating nationality, ethnicity, and culture which means people are using them differently.
We couldn't even agree on our own descriptors!
And we just about managed not to fall out!

KK has opened an interesting can of worms with those comments!

gatheryerosebuds · 03/03/2025 15:10

@mantaraya
it’s an interesting point and worthy of its own discussion
Shirley Bassey for example is known as a Welsh singer. It would be interesting to see if black singers born say in London would describe themselves as English or British

Cleardays · 03/03/2025 15:24

gatheryerosebuds · 03/03/2025 15:10

@mantaraya
it’s an interesting point and worthy of its own discussion
Shirley Bassey for example is known as a Welsh singer. It would be interesting to see if black singers born say in London would describe themselves as English or British

I think KK was seeing British as a nationality and English/ Scottish/ Irish as a cultural-ethnic identity.

I think its an interesting point. I do describe myself as British-English so I think he is onto something.

I have two sons, born in Scoltand but moved to Wales at a very young age. One describes himself as Scottish, the other describes himself as Welsh.

Your nationality is not really subjective, but your cultural/ethnic background is much more so..

PlacidPenelope · 03/03/2025 15:35

I agree with both your posts at 14.51 and 15.01 @MalagaNights

Zelensky played right into Putin's hands - piss off the USA and they withdraw support and aid, Putin is laughing his head off. Putin neither respects nor fears Zelensky, nor any other European leader, he knows that USA backing is needed, Zelensky knows this too and has said as much.

Europe are now scrabbling around trying to bridge the gap, they know they can't.

Agree about Peter Mandelson too, he is a very shrewd political operator can see the bigger picture and is calling this one right.

witheringrowan · 03/03/2025 15:43

OP, if you're still around and interested in learning more about Russian politics, media and public discourse, and what that means for everyone else globally, I would suggest reading two books by Peter Pomerantsev;

  • Nothing is true and everything is possible - about early 21th century Russia, a little about Putin, but more about how the country has responded to post-Soviet challenges
  • This is not propaganda - the use of media, particularly the internet & how it has affected different groups' perception of reality.

Both of those books helped me to have a better understanding of what's driving the Russian leadership's actions & work out who is worth listening to as a credible source.

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 15:58

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 13:04

@kattaduck "And nobody wanted to support Blair during Iraq because everybody knew it was clearly a hoax."

The UK Parliament did.

The British public did too even though it was known it was a hoax.

It goes to.show that the US did even have military support when it was only about increasing power in the region and making money through military contrary.

Why is this a better reason for boots on the ground than defending a country that is legitimately being invaded?

cardibach · 03/03/2025 18:10

PlacidPenelope · 03/03/2025 15:35

I agree with both your posts at 14.51 and 15.01 @MalagaNights

Zelensky played right into Putin's hands - piss off the USA and they withdraw support and aid, Putin is laughing his head off. Putin neither respects nor fears Zelensky, nor any other European leader, he knows that USA backing is needed, Zelensky knows this too and has said as much.

Europe are now scrabbling around trying to bridge the gap, they know they can't.

Agree about Peter Mandelson too, he is a very shrewd political operator can see the bigger picture and is calling this one right.

In what way did Zelenskyy piss Trump off? He was perfectly respectful. Trump pissed himself off - to give himself an excuse to do what he’s doing.