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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MushMonster · 02/03/2025 18:42

Yes, we will have to design and manufacture our very own defence systems, our own aircraft, ships, weapons. With our design, our technology, our innovation and our manufacturing. For us, as deterrent to any other idiot like Putin.
This will involve a trade that is likely to have zero to do with US.

BusyExpert · 02/03/2025 22:05

actually most people I know think you are talking nonsense. You clearly have not the first clue of what is going on

OP posts:
echt · 02/03/2025 22:08

BusyExpert · 02/03/2025 22:05

actually most people I know think you are talking nonsense. You clearly have not the first clue of what is going on

You and your mates, eh?

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 23:26

OneAmberFinch · 02/03/2025 14:31

The point isn't to be a bombshell - it's meant to point out that the narrative of 100% unconditional domestic support in Ukraine isn't entirely accurate, and remind him that his back is already against the wall and he's speaking to people who are willing to support him despite not having a lot of direct reasons to do so.

But I do think that Vance is genuinely at least partially motivated by a belief that the war has had an unjustified human toll in the form of conscripted soldiers' lives, with a suspicion that Zelensky is doing it for self-aggrandizing reasons. I'm basing that on what I can see about his online influences - not Russian bots but the online-modern-right with a side order of convert-trad-caths. He is a different person to Trump and projecting what we know about Trump onto him isn't always predictive.

But everybody knows that Zelensky dies not have 100% support. That's just normal, same as the UK during World War 2. He has the overwhelming majority though and has already offered to step down if he didn't.

Unjustified toll, yes but conscription is not a gotcha people tend to believe it is. It is just a normal thing during war has ever been. I am not projecting but if he sees it as such an unjustified toll while did he behave the way he did during the press conference. Why not show compassion and respect during this trying times instead of lying in Zelenskys face and trying to silence him. Why escalate the situation? Vance might not be Trump but everything he's done shows that they speak with the same voice.

user9876543211 · 03/03/2025 00:03

BoldRed · 02/03/2025 09:32

I see all the tedious Kremlin talking points (lies) being wheeled out again. We know what’s been given and what it’s been spent on. US aid didn’t arrive in a series of bank transfers to Zelenskyy’s personal bank account. It’s arrived largely in the form of US made weapons, the manufacture of which has poured money into the US economy, created jobs and allowed the US military to upgrade its own equipment as older versions were shipped to Ukraine. There is no Trump ‘peace deal’. Trump wanted to bully Zelenskyy into signing over hundreds of billions of Ukrainian national resources in return for absolutely nothing, while Trump insults Zelenskyy and fawns over the murderous dictator Putin.

Why is this very basic fact about US military aid beyond the understanding of so many people?

OneLemonDog · 03/03/2025 00:26

user9876543211 · 03/03/2025 00:03

Why is this very basic fact about US military aid beyond the understanding of so many people?

Because it's not what Dear Leader tells them.

Notsosure1 · 03/03/2025 00:46

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:21

I agree with everything in your OP.

What Trump and Vance said was true - but their delivery was extremely unfortunate and made Zelenskyy, who stayed calm, look like a hero.

When Trump said Z was going to start WW3 he was right.

I think the hysteria is a bit like Brexit mark II, those who shout loudest etc - not necessarily what the majority are thinking, but most can't be arsed getting into it and being called "evil bigots" "rape apologists" "thick" etc.

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

It's all well and good to want to appear virtuous and be on the "good guys" side - but the reality is giving Ukraine more money and support is just dragging this out even longer and putting our country in a very dangerous position - especially now the US are out.

I see your POV - but Hitler was allowed to take land and nothing was done - and he took more….

Do you honestly think Putin would stop at Ukraine if he was allowed this ‘victory’? He wants to go down in history as the modern leader who extended Russia’s empire.

Most normal ppl don’t want war - particularly the citizens in the thick of it - but you can’t allow countries to just take over other countries bc it’s easier, it’ll lead to far more fighting and blood-shed long term, and God-knows how many other countries sending their loved ones to fight.

edited for typo

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 00:46

I’ve been baffled at the hysteria too. It’s like we all rely on soundbites now that confirm our bias. If I’d have just watched ‘the argument’ bit I would think it was bullying, two on one, etc - but, I watched about 40 mins and feel far more conscious that Trump and Vance were defending their country. Zelenskyy insulted them. But it’s been reduced to a spat - with worrying consequences. It’s dangerous how we don’t think for ourselves.

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 00:58

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 00:46

I’ve been baffled at the hysteria too. It’s like we all rely on soundbites now that confirm our bias. If I’d have just watched ‘the argument’ bit I would think it was bullying, two on one, etc - but, I watched about 40 mins and feel far more conscious that Trump and Vance were defending their country. Zelenskyy insulted them. But it’s been reduced to a spat - with worrying consequences. It’s dangerous how we don’t think for ourselves.

How did Zelensky insult them?

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 01:06

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 00:58

How did Zelensky insult them?

Read what you can, watch it all, make your own mind up. Don’t rely on me. I think with respect the problem we have in forums are very keen to ensnare. Just trust your own mind.

Maitri108 · 03/03/2025 01:09

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 01:06

Read what you can, watch it all, make your own mind up. Don’t rely on me. I think with respect the problem we have in forums are very keen to ensnare. Just trust your own mind.

What? I watched it and he didn't insult them, quite the opposite. I'm wondering why you came to that conclusion.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/03/2025 01:12

I wonder how many of those spouting unfailing (and never ending) support for Ukraine (70% of who's population want the war to end NOW) will be happy to wave their sons and grandsons off to war?

70%? Who are the 30% of Ukrainians who don't want the war to end now? What do they want instead?🤯🤯🤯

Where did you get your stats from @Dollydaydream100?

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:26

NuNameNuMe · 02/03/2025 05:31

Alternatively, this war could be ended by Putin going back to the border as it was in Jan 2022. Once again, shills for the Russian government like the OP, are telling us not to believe the evidence of our own eyes. Russia started this shit and they can end it too.

Be real though, why would they?

Because someone told them they were being baddies?

That's just not going to happen.

They haven't won convincingly, but they also haven't lost. A negotiation at this point will mean a compromise, they get something, but not everything that they want.

If there is no negotiation, the war will continue, and in the end, unless Europe or the US actually engage directly, they will win. In that case the Ukrainians will lose everything. After perhaps many more years of their people dying in war.

The other possibility would be for the US or Europe engage directly, that is, a war with Russia. The first question would be whether such a thing would be politically possible at all - it seems very unsure whether the electorates would accept it. But ignoring that, we then are looking at outright war between the West and Russia, and the big worry would be, what would China do? Almost certainly they would not do nothing. Are you willing to risk a war with Russia and China on the other side?

People keep talking about Churchill and not accepting encroachments into other's territories, but how was that approached after the WWII period - by escalating build up of nuclear weapons.

None of these things are great choices, and yet, the political leaders need to make a choice.

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 01:30

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 00:46

I’ve been baffled at the hysteria too. It’s like we all rely on soundbites now that confirm our bias. If I’d have just watched ‘the argument’ bit I would think it was bullying, two on one, etc - but, I watched about 40 mins and feel far more conscious that Trump and Vance were defending their country. Zelenskyy insulted them. But it’s been reduced to a spat - with worrying consequences. It’s dangerous how we don’t think for ourselves.

I don't think hysteria concerning World War III
Ist justified though to be fair that was also brought up by Trump.

The facts are the only insulting thing some one said was calling Z. ungrateful which is factually untrue.

Whether you think Z. should have be more grateful depends on.your own opinion I think. I do not but I can see why other people would.

If this would have been any discussion outside the political realm it would have been the following. 2 people in a position of power over another person who is more vulnerable than them and who has had a lot of stress and trauma put on them in the past. I personally would have more compassion towards someone as Zelensky and even though I might have felt personally offended would have let it slide because that's what you do when you know that someone is desperate. Because that's what I do in my personal life and I'm for sure not the most moral or empathetic person. But it is the right thing to do. I also think being the bigger person and not demanding a public apology is the right thing to do and yes being a leader you should be gracious. I might not personally like Macron but he was gracious towards Trump and Trump should really take something out of his playbook.

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:39

DodoTired · 02/03/2025 12:06

@TempestTost

I have very clearly said in my post that if Putin gets Ukraine (non NATO member) he will next target either the Baltic states or Poland (who are all NATO members). The ideal scenario that Russia is forever too weak to do that, and fighting in Ukraine achieves that

Edited

So sacrifice Ukraine for European security?

I think the Ukrainians might be forgiven for thinking that's a bit shit.

JHound · 03/03/2025 01:46

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 00:46

I’ve been baffled at the hysteria too. It’s like we all rely on soundbites now that confirm our bias. If I’d have just watched ‘the argument’ bit I would think it was bullying, two on one, etc - but, I watched about 40 mins and feel far more conscious that Trump and Vance were defending their country. Zelenskyy insulted them. But it’s been reduced to a spat - with worrying consequences. It’s dangerous how we don’t think for ourselves.

I watched the whole thing and nowhere did Zelenskyy insult them

OneLemonDog · 03/03/2025 01:50

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:39

So sacrifice Ukraine for European security?

I think the Ukrainians might be forgiven for thinking that's a bit shit.

That's the opposite of what the poster is suggesting, surely?

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:50

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 15:52

The deal wasn't agreed. Trump wanted Zelensky to sign over the minerals to the USA, with the guarantee of ?? That's the missing piece. Trump was pissed off that Zelensky said no (again).

What I find odd about this is that it is very clear now that guarantees of help and support aren't worth a whole lot. In the end, when a decision is made to support or not support some nation, it's pragmatic.

If Ukrainian mineral rights were worth a lot to the US, they would have a strong concrete reason to protect them from Russia. And they are worth a lot, economically and strategically.

To me it seems like that is a stronger guarantee than any promise.

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:59

OneLemonDog · 03/03/2025 01:50

That's the opposite of what the poster is suggesting, surely?

I don't think so, but perhaps she does.

What she is saying is that if Putin wins Ukraine, he will be freed up and emboldened to try for other parts of Europe.

If he is kept fighting in Ukraine, that won't happen.

But that will of course mean the deaths of many Ukrainians, over years, and the destruction of much of their infrastructure and way of life. With who knows what outcome at the end.

So a sacrifice of Ukrainian lives for Europe's security.

I expect that's the trade-off many European leaders have in mind, unpleasant as it might seem. So they try and present it as fighting for the Ukrainians.

ForeverScout · 03/03/2025 04:07

TempestTost · 03/03/2025 01:50

What I find odd about this is that it is very clear now that guarantees of help and support aren't worth a whole lot. In the end, when a decision is made to support or not support some nation, it's pragmatic.

If Ukrainian mineral rights were worth a lot to the US, they would have a strong concrete reason to protect them from Russia. And they are worth a lot, economically and strategically.

To me it seems like that is a stronger guarantee than any promise.

Unless of course Trump has done a deal with Russia and will just wave their troops on through, with protections for US workers and split the profits between them.

I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. And I would imagine Zelensky knows that too.

dottiehens · 03/03/2025 06:42

Do not waste your time. There is nothing you can say that will convince these people. Trump and Vance did not make themselves any favours on the delivery of the meeting. Zelensky is now more than ever a “hero” as Trump and Vance delivered the truth in a very uncivilised manner. If the war continues May be more people will see it your way. Let’s hope peace and a deal is made soon before more death and destruction happens.

XWKD · 03/03/2025 06:44

If Zelensky is responsible for starting WWIII, then who is to blame for WWII in Europe? Poland, France or everyone but Nazi Germany I suppose. 🙄

MushMonster · 03/03/2025 06:52

BusyExpert · 02/03/2025 22:05

actually most people I know think you are talking nonsense. You clearly have not the first clue of what is going on

Who were you replying to here?

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 07:01

Dollydaydream100 · 01/03/2025 21:25

Did you watch it all? He stayed calm and therefore seemingly came off "better". He wasn't really polite and respectful though. He went in there to sign a peace treaty and then tried to push it too far (when he really isn't in a position to do so) - Trump was correct when he said Z isn't holding the cards and shouldn't act like it.

He overplayed his hand and lost basically.

I agree that T and V looked like aggressive bullish twats the way they both tag-teamed him, but what they were saying was correct.

People are getting far too emotive about this. Use your heads.

It wasn’t a “peace treaty”… How could it be! The US isn’t at war with Ukraine! It was a minerals deal… one that implicitly provides security guarantees rather than explicitly (ie

Would Russia really attack if US mining companies are on the ground?

Would Trump really just let Russia overrun the mineral sites he has signed a major deal over with major consequences?

Trump is transactional by nature, and a mineral deal would provide Ukraine with far more real support from the US than a “security guarantee” from a Trump administration, as Trump has a stake in it… And there’s only one thing you can guarantee Trump to protect, and that’s his prestige and status.

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 07:04

ForeverScout · 03/03/2025 04:07

Unless of course Trump has done a deal with Russia and will just wave their troops on through, with protections for US workers and split the profits between them.

I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. And I would imagine Zelensky knows that too.

Well if that’s the case, then Ukraine truly is screwed… but falling out with Trump only makes that more likely!