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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 07:09

The deal wasn't agreed. Trump wanted Zelensky to sign over the minerals to the USA, with the guarantee of ?? That's the missing piece. Trump was pissed off that Zelensky said no (again).

The update today from BBC etc is he's ready to sign.

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 07:14

The more realistic posts on this thread are sticking.

The deal to be signed by Zelenskyy now.

Next up what Russia will sign, and whether they'll say ok to troops.

Listening to MP rn now it's hot air. All hinges on US security still.

ForeverScout · 03/03/2025 07:17

I think Ukraine is screwed either way. Personally I'd prefer not to give trump a blowjob on the way down, but that's just me.

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 07:21

I fully agree with Kisin’s take on this. He has it spot on. I’ve never been more depressed by world events than I was on Friday…

Needling and antagonising Trump and Vance in a public press conference was never going to end well. It was unnecessary and counterproductive, and resulting in defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory, by scuppering a minerals deal with implicit guarantees far stronger than anything explicit.

The stubbornness and bravery shown by Zelensky has enabled Ukraine to remain standing 3 years after an invasion that was meant to take 3 days.

However, Friday’s events made me question whether those qualities stand in the way of the messy compromises that will be needed for peace, and whether actually, Ukraine would be best served with someone else at the helm now… and I write that with a very heavy heart as I think the man is a genuine hero.

MaggieMistletoe · 03/03/2025 07:29

thepariscrimefiles · 02/03/2025 12:55

He also said that "He’s a brown Hindu; how is he English?” about Rishi Sunak. I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt. He certainly isn't someone I would implicitly trust.

But that is true. Its not in any way a slur, what's wrong with being a brown Hindu? You are the one with the wrong perspective if you think that is offensive. Rishi is British but he is not English, English is a race and a heritage, not simply a nationality that you can fill in a form and sign up for. I expect the comment about Rishi was somewhere within the subject of England being led by someone who likely does not hold English and Christian culture, history and values to the same importance as many of our leaders will have historically.
That is a valid conversation and does not make anyone racist.

MaggieMistletoe · 03/03/2025 07:31

1984reallywasagoodbook · 03/03/2025 00:46

I’ve been baffled at the hysteria too. It’s like we all rely on soundbites now that confirm our bias. If I’d have just watched ‘the argument’ bit I would think it was bullying, two on one, etc - but, I watched about 40 mins and feel far more conscious that Trump and Vance were defending their country. Zelenskyy insulted them. But it’s been reduced to a spat - with worrying consequences. It’s dangerous how we don’t think for ourselves.

Absolutely.

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 07:46

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 07:21

I fully agree with Kisin’s take on this. He has it spot on. I’ve never been more depressed by world events than I was on Friday…

Needling and antagonising Trump and Vance in a public press conference was never going to end well. It was unnecessary and counterproductive, and resulting in defeat being snatched from the jaws of victory, by scuppering a minerals deal with implicit guarantees far stronger than anything explicit.

The stubbornness and bravery shown by Zelensky has enabled Ukraine to remain standing 3 years after an invasion that was meant to take 3 days.

However, Friday’s events made me question whether those qualities stand in the way of the messy compromises that will be needed for peace, and whether actually, Ukraine would be best served with someone else at the helm now… and I write that with a very heavy heart as I think the man is a genuine hero.

I also question the advice to Z

Europe was clearly pushing for US security so he was sent in emboldened to say no without it. But there's no way that can be delivered on by Europe.

In a way it's messy but if he does sign it gets to the same place in the end.

mantaraya · 03/03/2025 08:05

English is a race and a heritage, not simply a nationality that you can fill in a form and sign up for

The definition of "English" is simply "relating to or from England". England has been invaded constantly by various types of people throughout history. It has acted as a vast colonial power leading to large levels of immigration and emigration across its borders. The idea that there is one distinct English race (as separate from Scottish, Irish, Australian, American, Canadian etc.) is just patently ridiculous.

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 08:14

MaggieMistletoe · 03/03/2025 07:29

But that is true. Its not in any way a slur, what's wrong with being a brown Hindu? You are the one with the wrong perspective if you think that is offensive. Rishi is British but he is not English, English is a race and a heritage, not simply a nationality that you can fill in a form and sign up for. I expect the comment about Rishi was somewhere within the subject of England being led by someone who likely does not hold English and Christian culture, history and values to the same importance as many of our leaders will have historically.
That is a valid conversation and does not make anyone racist.

Indeed, he very clearly he’s not “English” by culturally or ethnically, so I think those calling him racist is fundamentally misunderstanding his point.

And ironically, it’s those who try to deny there is an English culture, but are very happy to celebrate any and all other cultures, that are stoking resentment that will only help the likes of Farage and Reform.

OneLemonGuide · 03/03/2025 08:15

Missed a key word… he “clearly says he’s not English”.

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 08:32

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 07:09

The deal wasn't agreed. Trump wanted Zelensky to sign over the minerals to the USA, with the guarantee of ?? That's the missing piece. Trump was pissed off that Zelensky said no (again).

The update today from BBC etc is he's ready to sign.

He also has to publically apologize but he said he is not willing to do that. Neither is he willing to give up territories but that is probably a pipe dream.
Let's see if the US are willing to back the European security guarantees.

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 08:37

@kattaduck idk about the apology part do you mean it's off if he doesn't?

US security won't be added to that document so we'll see what happens. There's not much leverage from anyone who is demanding it.

thepariscrimefiles · 03/03/2025 08:40

MaggieMistletoe · 03/03/2025 07:29

But that is true. Its not in any way a slur, what's wrong with being a brown Hindu? You are the one with the wrong perspective if you think that is offensive. Rishi is British but he is not English, English is a race and a heritage, not simply a nationality that you can fill in a form and sign up for. I expect the comment about Rishi was somewhere within the subject of England being led by someone who likely does not hold English and Christian culture, history and values to the same importance as many of our leaders will have historically.
That is a valid conversation and does not make anyone racist.

English is not a race. It's a nationality. Are you saying that all non-white people and people of a different religion are not English, even if they were born in England?

There's nothing wrong with being a brown Hindu. It also doesn't stop him being English.

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 08:57

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 08:37

@kattaduck idk about the apology part do you mean it's off if he doesn't?

US security won't be added to that document so we'll see what happens. There's not much leverage from anyone who is demanding it.

Maybe it's off I don't know.
Personally I think all this talk about publically apologizing is just dumb and getting back to just diplomatic negotiations without any big public statements would be best. But I think we all know Trump and he has always loved to publically humiliate people he doesn't like. Not something beholden to the office of the president but that's what people voted for.

Wile there isn't much military leverage the further breakdown of transatlantic relationships will hurt Americans just as bad as Europeans so we'll see. The ball is in Trumps court now.
I have my own views on what I might want the outcome to be but I also know that I might not going to get it. That's tragic but at least it helped to bring Europe together for now.
What I will always hugely condemn is the behavior of Trump and Vance because I think bullying and nastiness someone more desperate than you should not have any place in international diplomacy. If Trump can treat Netanyahu with respect he can bloody well do it with Zelensky too.

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 09:19

Wile there isn't much military leverage the further breakdown of transatlantic relationships will hurt Americans just as bad as Europeans so we'll see.

The main outcome will be Europe committing to developing defence efforts over the next decade and further.

Maybe, if they stick to it. The US won't carry everyone as much which was the aim for their voters.

radiatorcat · 03/03/2025 09:19

English is not a race. It's a nationality. Are you saying that all non-white people and people of a different religion are not English, even if they were born in England?

That is what's being argued. The mist clears and we see who are really debating with on the thread.

Not racist my ass.

This belief justifies the 'Where are you from?' question, addressed to people who have lived in England for generations. But oddly, wouldn't be asked of the royals who by the same logic are actually German.

I wonder why? 🤔

kattaduck · 03/03/2025 09:29

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 09:19

Wile there isn't much military leverage the further breakdown of transatlantic relationships will hurt Americans just as bad as Europeans so we'll see.

The main outcome will be Europe committing to developing defence efforts over the next decade and further.

Maybe, if they stick to it. The US won't carry everyone as much which was the aim for their voters.

As Europe should do.
But they should also look at other partners when it comes to trade negotiations or buying of military equipment. Which does have an effect on the US so we'll see how that pans out for their voters.

And let's not forget that the only time someone in NATO called for help it was the US not the other way around. I wonder how Americans would have felt if Europe wouldn't have offered support after 9/11. I still remember the Iraq War and how passed US voters were and that was based on a lie. At least Ukraine's is asking for help for legitimate reasons.

Whatafustercluck · 03/03/2025 09:40

There's another analysis doing the rounds on social media where it's evident that Trump and Vance employed all the classic abusive, victim-blaming tactics of, well, abusers, to double down on Zelenskyy. Quite a few on this thread seemingly forgetting who invaded whom, as well. If someone came into my house, beat up my husband and kids, then claimed all our worldly belongings, and them, as their own, then damn right I wouldn't be in particularly conciliatory mood. Ever again.

My prediction, for what it's worth, is that Trump will take up Putin's offer of access to Russian minerals in return for the US removing economic sanctions on Russia. We are literally a hair's breadth away from the US becoming an actual adversary as opposed to an ally. Financial transaction is all this administration knows or cares about. They will sell America's soul to the highest bidder. Trump wants to be the most talked about man in the world. He lives for views, hits and controversy. That's why Zelenskyy's visit was televised to the assembled press rather than conducted behind closed doors. It was a complete set-up, conducted by the two most powerful men on the planet.

CautiousLurker01 · 03/03/2025 10:42

I usually agree with KK on most things but in this I don’t. Ukraine used to have significant nuclear capability and would have been able to fend off an incursion from Russia on this basis. The US, UK etc brokers a deal in which we asked them to give up their nukes in exchange for us coming in to their aid - in recognition that giving them up made them vulnerable. We did eff all when Russia moved in on the Crimea, which was Putin testing the waters, failing in our commitment to protect them. We are honour bound to protect them - or give them back their nuclear arms. Given a choice, I’d support them rather than revert to the time of the nuclear arms race.

As with most things in the world - the US/UK are part of the backstory that lead to this. I agree it seems appalling that we should have to send money and potentially troops to fight in this war, but the government considered this risk (and knew it was a risk) when they brokered the deal for Ukraine to denuclearise… but its our government’s fault (specifically the Tories/John Major/Douglas Hurd who were in power at the time) for signing up to the treaty and making these commitments.

radiatorcat · 03/03/2025 11:23

CautiousLurker01 · 03/03/2025 10:42

I usually agree with KK on most things but in this I don’t. Ukraine used to have significant nuclear capability and would have been able to fend off an incursion from Russia on this basis. The US, UK etc brokers a deal in which we asked them to give up their nukes in exchange for us coming in to their aid - in recognition that giving them up made them vulnerable. We did eff all when Russia moved in on the Crimea, which was Putin testing the waters, failing in our commitment to protect them. We are honour bound to protect them - or give them back their nuclear arms. Given a choice, I’d support them rather than revert to the time of the nuclear arms race.

As with most things in the world - the US/UK are part of the backstory that lead to this. I agree it seems appalling that we should have to send money and potentially troops to fight in this war, but the government considered this risk (and knew it was a risk) when they brokered the deal for Ukraine to denuclearise… but its our government’s fault (specifically the Tories/John Major/Douglas Hurd who were in power at the time) for signing up to the treaty and making these commitments.

Thank you for reminding me of this!

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 11:26

@CautiousLurker01 "The US, UK etc brokers a deal in which we asked them to give up their nukes in exchange for us coming in to their aid - in recognition that giving them up made them vulnerable"

Can you indicate where this was written in the deal?

It was, IMO,. a pretty useless deal as it didn't spell out the consequences if any of the signatories broke the pact.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/03/2025 12:21

The main outcome will be Europe committing to developing defence efforts over the next decade and further

Good luck with that, *EasternStandard". After the talk of the EU "supporting America" I've been looking at their response after 9/11 when Article 5 was invoked, and while I believe a few sanctions were imposed and a list cobbled together of agents of concern, the main thrust is a predictable ballooning of bureaucracy of all types

A wonderful opportunity to access more funding no doubt and an excellent spur for hundreds of meetings, but I do wonder about the measurable effectiveness of all this

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/memo_02_122

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 12:25

@kattaduck The Budapest Agreement was signed in 1994.

I do not understand how that Russia could annex the Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 without any consequences. Russia continued selling gas to Europe and it could even host the FIFA World Cup in 2018 😮

Why didn't the US with Obama, Germany with Merkel or the EU intervene at that time?

EasternStandard · 03/03/2025 12:30

Purplelodestone · 03/03/2025 12:25

@kattaduck The Budapest Agreement was signed in 1994.

I do not understand how that Russia could annex the Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 without any consequences. Russia continued selling gas to Europe and it could even host the FIFA World Cup in 2018 😮

Why didn't the US with Obama, Germany with Merkel or the EU intervene at that time?

@Purplelodestone Germany's economy thrived on cheap Russian gas, I believe someone pointed this out to them but it went down badly

@Puzzledandpissedoff yes I thought maybe after writing that, as it can easily be a press conference one day and diversion the next.

OneAmberFinch · 03/03/2025 12:41

thepariscrimefiles · 03/03/2025 08:40

English is not a race. It's a nationality. Are you saying that all non-white people and people of a different religion are not English, even if they were born in England?

There's nothing wrong with being a brown Hindu. It also doesn't stop him being English.

British is a nationality. I'm an immigrant and have a lot of immigrant friends, as well as non-white British friends who were born here. It's not universal, but in my experience the majority of them identify as "British" (citizenship) but not "English" (ethnicity) and don't see what the fuss is about.

@mantaraya , I have slightly mixed ancestry but predominantly English, but born overseas and not a British citizen. Refusing to allow the use of "English" as a race/ethnicity makes it very difficult for people like me to describe who I am. For example, if someone is born in Kenya and is a Kenyan citizen but is ethnically English - I mean - how are they meant to say that? People would laugh in their faces, and easily understand what they mean when they say they are ethnically English. They aren't confused and asking if they are maybe a brown Hindu. This is something I find people who haven't lived outside Britain don't understand.

"What do they know of England, who only England know?" indeed!

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