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Konstantin Kristin's take on the Zelensky /Trump press conference

359 replies

BusyExpert · 01/03/2025 17:10

Konstantin Kristin who is much more knowledgable about events in Ukraine has posted this on his substack. I repeat it here to see if has any effect on the uninformed hysteria being spouted.He explains far better than I could why Zelensky blew it. His ego got in the way and he failed to put it his country before his own ego which was not, as has been the norm from world leaders, been massaged.

Kristin says
"Before we address the in the Oval Office yesterday, a bunch of disclaimers are sadly necessary. Such are the times we live in.
If you are unfamiliar with my work, when Vladimir Putin’s troops invaded Ukraine in 2022, I went on one of the in Britain to express my shame for what Russia was doing and to call on our leaders to support Volodymyr Zelensky in defence of his country. In the weeks that followed, I gave interview after interview and participated in endless debates about our involvement in Ukraine. On TRIGGERnometry, we raised the best part of $100,000 in two hours for Ukrainian charities. My wife and I have sent supplies, clothing and our own money to friends, family and strangers in Ukraine to help them deal with the brutality of war and Russia’s deliberate targeting of Ukraine’s energy systems. Only last week, I described Trump’s labelling of Zelensky as a “dictator” as “absurd”. I can hardly be accused of being a Putin shill. Indeed, my feelings on the subject are so strong that when I saw a short clip of JD Vance and Donald Trump lambasting Volodymyr Zelensky in front of TV cameras last night, like most people, I assumed that this was yet another example of President Trump strong-arming Ukraine into accepting a rushed and unfavourable ceasefire with Russia. To my embarrassment, I tweeted as much.

Having complained only last week of journalists clipping my words out of context, I fell victim to the same trick myself. When I later watched the full 50-minute press conference, it became clear that President Trump had actually done his best to do a deal, and that it was President Zelensky who scuppered it through an ill-advised spat with JD Vance. This gave the Vice President justification to unleash a barrage of anti-Ukraine MAGA talking points he had clearly been waiting to deploy. As if this wasn’t enough, Zelensky then proceeded to mutter an insult under his breath, interrupt and argue with Trump himself, which led to the deal offer being withdrawn and Zelensky being sent to his room without his supper.

So, why did this happen and how can peace be salvaged? To understand why Zelensky acted the way he did, you have to consider the reality he has been operating in:

For the last 3 years, he has led his country in a heroic defence against a brutal and barbaric invasion. He saw innocent Ukrainian civilians being slaughtered, tortured and raped. He watched missiles and drones rain down on his towns and cities. He welcomed Ukrainian POWs on their return from Russian prisons and torture camps, only to discover they were emaciated, bruised and broken. He has spoken with Ukrainian parents whose childrenhave been stolen and taken to Russia.

During the same time period, he has received in every room he has entered. In Europe, across the political spectrum, Ukraine’s cause is seen as just, righteous and important for our collective safety. Foreign leaders have travelled to Kiev for photo ops with him. He has spoken in every major parliament in the world. Praise and attention have been lavished on him from every direction. At every turn, he has been told “we stand with Ukraine”, “Slava Ukraine” and so on.
This is one of the reasons his negotiating position appears somewhat disconnected from reality. During the press conference he argued that Russia must pay for the war on the basis that in history “whoever starts the war, pays”. What he appears to be missing is that this isn’t remotely true: in history, whoever wins makes the losing side pay. While neither side has defeated the other, Ukraine can hardly claim victory.
For all these reasons, the reality vortex he entered in the Oval Office yesterday would have been a shock. The fact is that MAGA, the dominant force in the world’s leading nation, does not share the European view of President Zelensky. You may agree or disagree, but to the current occupants of the White House, their advisors and their base, President Zelensky - and forgive me for putting this bluntly- is an untrustworthy leader of a corrupt country on the other side of the world who keeps asking for more money America doesn’t have to fight a war they neither care about nor feel he can win. Most of these perceptions stem primarily from domestic American politics and the hatred MAGA has for anyone and anything President Biden touched. Most Americans don’t know where Ukraine is and have no reason to care. To them, this is just another “forever war” like Iraq and Afghanistan.
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In other words, President Zelensky walked into a room in which people who don’t particularly like him, don’t particularly trust him, and don’t particularly care about his “just and righteous cause” were nevertheless prepared to continue giving him money, weapons and political support in order to make this problem go away. All he had to do was look grateful. When you are attempting to convert other people’s good will into hard currency, that is the bare minimum. And for 40 minutes, Zelensky just about managed.

The rationale for the argument he then instigated with JD Vance is not without merit. As I explained in my last video, Zelensky’s primary concern has to be what are known as “security guarantees” - this is a fancy way of saying that Putin is a proven liar who can’t be trusted to stick to any agreement reached. Therefore, the only way to prevent another invasion is through a permanent presence of European or American troops in between Russia and Ukraine. He kept making this point over and over during the press conference and did so diplomatically enough.

But the way he challenged Vance directly in front of the cameras was catastrophically stupid. Sure, if you hate Trump and Vance and think they’re taking part in a Youtube debate, then Zelensky made a valid point. But this was not a debate. They’re all supposed to be on the same side. And the person who has the most to lose from them not feeling like they’re all on the same side is President Zelensky, or, more importantly, his nation. The arguments about security guarantees should have been made with tact, diplomacy, and in private.

To make things worse, he followed this unfortunate error with another, much bigger one. In Europe, Zelensky is used to winning people over to his cause by claiming that Ukraine is all that stands between them and Vladimir Putin. We can argue about whether such claims are true, but the important thing is that in Europe we are much more receptive to this message for both cultural and pragmatic reasons. We are on the same continent as Russia and NATO’s eastern border is now in contact with Russia. This point of contact would have been significantly extended had Ukraine been overrun.

These arguments don’t wash in America and what’s worse, Americans HATE people painting a negative picture of their society’s future. This is why, I believe, President Trump interrupted Zelensky when he claimed that America won’t be protected from Putin by an ocean and shut him down.

None of this is to suggest that Vance or Trump behaved perfectly. But they aren’t the ones asking for more money, weapons, and diplomatic support. Their job is to look generous and find a route to peace. Zelensky’s job is to realise that he stopped being a human being when he became President of a country reliant on foreign aid to survive. He does not have the luxury of righteousness and his country cannot afford to have him lose control of his senses as he did."

OP posts:
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5
SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:24

You know I would love something to flag up how many times this line has been repeated "if putin is appeased the nato countries are next"...

Who are the real bots here?

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:29

@PebbleJus and the USA wants Europe to step up to be able to take on putin alone because it wants to "pivot" to..... China

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 13:33

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:24

You know I would love something to flag up how many times this line has been repeated "if putin is appeased the nato countries are next"...

Who are the real bots here?

Why not?
If NATO is not reliable anymore...

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:44

Nato still has assets, Ukraine has little flight power and we can't provide them with any, we can't put boots into Ukraine.
Putin still can't win.
Why in gods name would he take on the entity of nato with or without the states and let's face it, they have said they won't abandon it.
Why would putin trigger bombers and air raids onto Russia? And fresh soldiers?

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:45

And kattaduck putin would not get what he wants so why would he go after more.
He wants Ukraine he's not going to get it.

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 13:58

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:45

And kattaduck putin would not get what he wants so why would he go after more.
He wants Ukraine he's not going to get it.

Isn't he?
There's no ceasefire yet.

Also I wouldn't be so sure about leaving NATO. If one of the closest confidantes of Trump says theyshould makes you wonder...

Putin could easily do the same spiel with Estonia and Trump could just sustain. What then?

JHound · 02/03/2025 14:10

Purplelodestone · 02/03/2025 08:17

Really ?

How much ?

Yes.

mantaraya · 02/03/2025 14:11

In 2022 Putin said:

"Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s]...Apparently, it is also our lot to return [what is Russia’s] and strengthen [the country]."

The invasion of Ukraine is ideologically driven and based on Putin's belief that Eastern Europe is rightfully Russian. The guy is unhinged and the idea that he can just be appeased is extremely dangerous.

mumda · 02/03/2025 14:21

An emergency summit of European leaders - bought together by Starmer the (lack of) charmer. Starmer who happened to see Trump before he saw Zelensky.
Zelensky didn't look overly put out at the barrage in front of the press by trump.

Is it all a set up to bring Europe together to get them all acting as one against Russia, with the aim of securing an end to the war. This is after Macron's attempt in Paris didn't work?

It all feels a bit staged and like someone's being manipulated. And as it's the tax payer who funds the war, well done all of you.

radiatorcat · 02/03/2025 14:24

SunshinDay · 02/03/2025 13:24

You know I would love something to flag up how many times this line has been repeated "if putin is appeased the nato countries are next"...

Who are the real bots here?

The principle of risk management is to anticipate mitigate POTENTIAL serious risks. It's not about going with your gut as if this was a chat at the bar over beers. History shows Putin quite fancies invading countries. So it's not implausible. And as such it's a risk that needs mitigating.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 14:25

mantaraya · 02/03/2025 14:11

In 2022 Putin said:

"Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s]...Apparently, it is also our lot to return [what is Russia’s] and strengthen [the country]."

The invasion of Ukraine is ideologically driven and based on Putin's belief that Eastern Europe is rightfully Russian. The guy is unhinged and the idea that he can just be appeased is extremely dangerous.

This.
And he was appeased in 2014. He said he would leave Ukraine alone, yet here we are.
This is a whole Europe matter. We are all preoccupied with the security guarantees and rightly so. For both Ukraine and Europe.
Let's hope Nato survives this, but get ready for the case that will not. Let's work hard on that ceasefire and peace agreement, but prepare for the failure. And really, let's look around us carefully, because the world we just entered has nothing to do with the long peaceful years. Thanks to Mr Putin, for nothing, because he has really not achieved anything. We are all losing in this war, all of us, all Ukranians, all Russians and Putin himself.

radiatorcat · 02/03/2025 14:26

mumda · 02/03/2025 14:21

An emergency summit of European leaders - bought together by Starmer the (lack of) charmer. Starmer who happened to see Trump before he saw Zelensky.
Zelensky didn't look overly put out at the barrage in front of the press by trump.

Is it all a set up to bring Europe together to get them all acting as one against Russia, with the aim of securing an end to the war. This is after Macron's attempt in Paris didn't work?

It all feels a bit staged and like someone's being manipulated. And as it's the tax payer who funds the war, well done all of you.

Is it all a set up to bring Europe together to get them all acting as one against Russia, with the aim of securing an end to the war.

I hope so.

MushMonster · 02/03/2025 14:28

radiatorcat · 02/03/2025 14:26

Is it all a set up to bring Europe together to get them all acting as one against Russia, with the aim of securing an end to the war.

I hope so.

This used to happen, but behind closed doors, with spies well tuned in.
It was a bit more mysterious in the past.
Now, youtube is your listening device. Tune in!

OneAmberFinch · 02/03/2025 14:31

kattaduck · 02/03/2025 13:07

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

I mean Ukraine has conscripts, Rusdia has conscripts, NK has them too.
So would Britain if attacked. I really don't see what the bomb shell revelation is here. The lie after that though is offensive.

The point isn't to be a bombshell - it's meant to point out that the narrative of 100% unconditional domestic support in Ukraine isn't entirely accurate, and remind him that his back is already against the wall and he's speaking to people who are willing to support him despite not having a lot of direct reasons to do so.

But I do think that Vance is genuinely at least partially motivated by a belief that the war has had an unjustified human toll in the form of conscripted soldiers' lives, with a suspicion that Zelensky is doing it for self-aggrandizing reasons. I'm basing that on what I can see about his online influences - not Russian bots but the online-modern-right with a side order of convert-trad-caths. He is a different person to Trump and projecting what we know about Trump onto him isn't always predictive.

gatheryerosebuds · 02/03/2025 14:48

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2025 12:45

I admit to being surprised to see that from the BBC, EasternStandard, but that we "need them" is a given, however much some like to pretend otherwise because they don't like who's been elected

Talk of preparing to go ahead without the US is all very well, but as ever such ideas lack the detail which would inevitably push them into failure

I watched the 40 minute video and it started off really well and quite jovial. However Zelensky made it crystal clear that Ukraine could not survive with just European help. Several times he said that. And that's when it started to go sour.

SinnerBoy · 02/03/2025 15:01

SunshinDay · Today 13:24

You know I would love something to flag up how many times this line has been repeated "if putin is appeased the nato countries are next"...

Putin is on record as saying that the Baltic States should be part of Russia.

Trump said that Putin is welcome to attack European NATO countries. Trump thinks that Putin is a great guy and is delighted to lie on his behalf.

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 15:48

gatheryerosebuds · 02/03/2025 14:48

I watched the 40 minute video and it started off really well and quite jovial. However Zelensky made it crystal clear that Ukraine could not survive with just European help. Several times he said that. And that's when it started to go sour.

Is that not why he was there?

gatheryerosebuds · 02/03/2025 15:50

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 15:48

Is that not why he was there?

I'm not sure because at the start of the video, Trump stated that they 2had a deal" so I'm assuming that Zelensky was intimating that the "deal" was not actually agreed. Possibly that's why they started to get so angry (and I'm not excusing that at all), just interested to know why it deteriorated so dramatically

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 15:52

The deal wasn't agreed. Trump wanted Zelensky to sign over the minerals to the USA, with the guarantee of ?? That's the missing piece. Trump was pissed off that Zelensky said no (again).

Maitri108 · 02/03/2025 16:01

gatheryerosebuds · 02/03/2025 15:50

I'm not sure because at the start of the video, Trump stated that they 2had a deal" so I'm assuming that Zelensky was intimating that the "deal" was not actually agreed. Possibly that's why they started to get so angry (and I'm not excusing that at all), just interested to know why it deteriorated so dramatically

Things were getting awkward for Trump so they created some drama. Like Trump said it was good TV.

He showed Putin that he's no longer a Western ally and his MAGA fans can see orange balls putting America first. USA!

EasternStandard · 02/03/2025 16:13

@gatheryerosebuds at the WH Zelenskyy was still a no to signing without security

US were a no to changing that. They didn't want to provide security and three had asked by that point.

Not sure where it goes now.

Kendodd · 02/03/2025 16:32

cardibach · 02/03/2025 12:04

When it’s diplomacy it’s not degrading. But I didn’t see Zelenskyy do anything wrong anyway. And however flattering he was Trump wasn’t going to offer the security America (and Russia) promised after Ukraine gave up its nuclear defence as he’s too close to Putin.

I don't know .
I think if Zelensky had really heaped on the praise to Trump it might have got him on board. He could have offered to rename one of the frontline cities after him and talked about how he dreams of Trump rebuilding the devastated areas of Ukraine with resorts and golf courses. I think Trumps ego is so big it can be used to manipulate him.

cardibach · 02/03/2025 17:24

Kendodd · 02/03/2025 16:32

I don't know .
I think if Zelensky had really heaped on the praise to Trump it might have got him on board. He could have offered to rename one of the frontline cities after him and talked about how he dreams of Trump rebuilding the devastated areas of Ukraine with resorts and golf courses. I think Trumps ego is so big it can be used to manipulate him.

Trump cares about one thing. Money.

TankFlyBossW4lk · 02/03/2025 18:08

Tbh Zelensky was probably utterly desperate for a democratic win. He knows this administration is utter bizarre.

What's interesting though is that Europe has always seen war as a thing to be avoided at all costs. We've engaged the US weapon making machine. But actually, Europe's pretty good at making weapons. I'm hoping the US has just done themselves out of a business opportunity.

ForeverScout · 02/03/2025 18:41

MikeRafone · 02/03/2025 12:28

I would like to add, re: JD Vance's comments - everyone is quoting the "you need to say thank you" line, but the bit before it is "come on, mate, you are resorting to conscription, your people are dying". Which is accurate.

the reality for Russia is 700,000 missing or dead, Putin using prisoners to fight and using troops form North Korea - people are conscripted in wars to fight for their country.

If you want to make an informed guess on what is going to happen - China is going to be doing very well from this. The world is not trusting US or Russia after the display of going back on the agreements from decades ago. That leads US in a different position from normal as countries and companies will show their disdain in different ways. Which leave China prime to take advantage

Agreed. I thought it would be a cold day in hell before I would back my country's lean toward alliance with China. But now - honestly is there much difference between the US and China? The land of the free is becoming less so by the day, they are unstable and unpredictable, think only of themselves (nothing new there) and cannot be relied on to follow through with their end of the deals they make. If they don't turn from the path they're on with Trump & whoever comes after him I can see, pragmatically speaking, they will have lost the moral reasons why people partner with them over China - so they lose their preferential ally status for many. The US may well be entering their twilight years as a major world power.

Isolationism didn't protect them last time, it won't this time. And the response after 9/11? Will be turned to crickets. I wonder how many Americans have really thought about this.

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