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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

bum pinching in night clubs!

147 replies

ventandrant · 01/03/2025 10:10

I am a parent to 2 teens one being almost 19 and she has just started going out, she goes to pubs in the town centre and quite likes the pub culture but what she hates is men/boys constantly looking at her. Last weekend her and her friends went clubbing after the pub and her friend got her bum pinched, her friends parents are now in talks with the club as her friend thinks she was sexually assaulted, because it wasn't consensual and he didn't ask first they think this is sexual assault.

My DD said in the club its constantly boys trying to touch girls up but they don't ask first so it is assault. When I was young and used to go clubbing that is how it was - you may get touched and then you would have a snog on the dance floor sometimes it would lead to exchanging numbers but other times it would lead to absolutely nothing and sometimes I would end up snogging 3 men in one night!!

They say they will never go clubbing again as they are scarred for life but two of them especially seem of frightened of boys even talking to them because of this culture of "consent", their other friend is the opposite she flirts constantly and has had lots of one night stands and several relationships with boys from about 14 onwards but none of the other three have.

Opinions please. Is this assault? I want to try and give her a balanced view of life and relationships but she thinks all boys are bad because all you hear about is "assault" and "consent".

OP posts:
AffableApple · 01/03/2025 23:49

Friestogo · 01/03/2025 10:24

My DD is also 19 and started going to clubs when she was 18 and this is a constant problem. Guys thinking they have touching rights because they are on a dancefloor. My DD says that many of them are lecherous, looking them up and down, saying crude comments and she has had her bum grabbed and fondled without her consent on more than once occasion. But I had the same shit happen to me when I was her age and its hideous that this bullshit is still going on.

Last time it happened to my DD I said why didn't you say something to him or go and tell one of the bouncers and get him thrown out and she said she did nothing because of the potential repercussions. That this guy could wait for her outside when she came out.

There is a difference between flirting with a guy in a club that you like, he dances with you and touches you and you end up kissing. It is your choice to do that. But when someone puts their hands on you in that way that you have not asked for then yes its assault. If its non consensual and you don't want it then its assault!

I have also had the talk with DD that not all guys do this and she knows this. Some of the guys she has met at uni have been respectful and not dickheads but her view of guys in general right now is pretty negative.

A few years ago my friend shouted at a twat for touching her. She got thrown out of the club for being unreasonable. Alone. Her phone was dead, we had no idea what had happened to her for a couple of hours. Bouncers don't care. I'm sorry another generation of women is having to put up with this.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 01/03/2025 23:50

Yes it's sexual assault. It was normalized when we were teens. Same with bra strap pinging.

Lost20211 · 01/03/2025 23:54

Are you F’ing serious?!?!?!?! It’s bloody well sexual assault. Get a fecking grip of yourself.

Jollyjoy · 01/03/2025 23:55

Yellowhammer09 · 01/03/2025 23:38

She turned down a house party tonight as she said there will be boys and men there and she doesn't want to be around them.
Ignoring the well-covered SA conversation, the above statement is really, really strange. Something other than a bit of bum pinching or knee touching must have happened. I may have missed it, but has she had any therapy or similar? Men really aren't that scary.

I think the possibility of previous assault or CSA should be considered, as estimates of CSA for women are around 20%. And if this were the case, having a mum who doesn't consider being groped to be sexual assault, and this to be a man hating stance = pretty traumatic.

I also wonder if you've considered OP, that if you're telling her the club experiences aren't assault, that she's left thinking 'I definitely don't want to find out what assault is as that was bad enough'?

Even without a significant incident or experience in the past, the cumulative effect of being looked up and down and unwanted touch, is significant in shaping views of men.

NotVeryFunny · 01/03/2025 23:56

ventandrant · 01/03/2025 10:30

I don't think the night club culture is for her - there are a couple of friends who love it as they love the attention but she is very wary of boys and men which is a good thing but is definitely stopping her having a relationship as she seems to think all boys/men are bad and only after one thing. She has no male friends as she thinks that boys are only after girls for sex but I need to try and tell her that not all boys are like this and this bum pinching consent thing as made her hate men even more.

I have had a conversation with her about this and I think it probably goes back to when she was in year 10 and on the school bus and in there was boy who often sat next to her who I think obviously fancied her and they became quite friendly but he then touched her knee and she then wouldn't go on the bus for weeks. This was 4 years ago and it has obviously stayed with her. She hates boys looking at her in pubs on trains etc and it makes her feel uncomfortable and she feels that they should ask first. I noticed a few months ago that when she goes out she doesn't wear make up any more and she told me this is so boys don't look at her

She needs to find other clubs. There are meat market clubs which are dire and where you get this shit all the time and clubs where people go to dance and you get significantly less unwanted attention. The worst that used to happen in these clubs is continue might dance a bit too close to you, and you could just dance away and that'd be the end of that. Don't go to the commercial main high street clubs. Go to "proper" dance music nights/clubs and you get less harassment.

ThisFluentBiscuit · 02/03/2025 00:03

Ugh, I gave up going to nightclubs when I was young for this exact reason. So depressing to find that it hasn't improved in 25 years. I remember once, in about 1997, I was in one and was carrying two Cokes away from the bar. Some inadequate creep put his two hands squarely on my bottom, knowing full well that my hands weren't free so I couldn't deck him. I whirled around but I didn't know who it was. Another time I was having a kiss with a guy on the dancefloor and he slid his hand onto my breast! That's a whole different category from a kiss. I think I stopped going after that.

TwistedWonder · 02/03/2025 00:08

NotVeryFunny · 01/03/2025 23:56

She needs to find other clubs. There are meat market clubs which are dire and where you get this shit all the time and clubs where people go to dance and you get significantly less unwanted attention. The worst that used to happen in these clubs is continue might dance a bit too close to you, and you could just dance away and that'd be the end of that. Don't go to the commercial main high street clubs. Go to "proper" dance music nights/clubs and you get less harassment.

Show quote history

I’m older and my club days were in the 80’s and 99’s but I agree there’s a huge difference between the high street Roxy type places compared to the ones that are more about the music.

I noticed a huge difference when I started going to house music clubs as compared to the top 40 type places. Complete different crowd there to dance not pull

Bloodybrambles · 02/03/2025 12:50

JandamiHash · 01/03/2025 22:43

Yes it’s assault. Used to happen to me all the time as a student. I got to the point where I’d smack their face if they pinched my bum. The amount who unironically shouted “You’ve assaulted me” was staggering. I wouldn’t advise this these days BTW, the world is more dangerous. But I certainly wouldn’t have let it stop me doing something I enjoyed. That’s how they win

I used to do this too.

I think OP is struggling to tell this difference between two young people who are giving the flirty eyes/smiling at each other/getting closer to each other and woman trying to mind their own business and being touched sexually by a stranger.

There’s way to say ‘Yes’ without saying the exact words, and there’s way to say ‘No’ without saying those words either.

The last time I went to a gig a guy but his hands on my hips, I peeled them off. He then did it again. I moved away. He then stroked my arse. I slapped him. There’s no way he didn’t understand that I didn’t want him touching me. I wasn’t giving him the body language that I was wanting him to touch me. He apologised as he didn’t realise I was married.

Maitri108 · 02/03/2025 14:03

He apologised as he didn’t realise I was married.

What does that mean?

JHound · 02/03/2025 14:19

People should not be touching others without their consent.
Maybe I would not see it as assault but I know women who do (and have done even when we were young.)

Your daughter and her friend are fine to see it as they wish to.

JHound · 02/03/2025 14:19

ColinOfficeTrolley · 01/03/2025 10:15

The fact you put "consent" in quote marks, tells me all I need to know about your thoughts on this matter OP.

This.

JHound · 02/03/2025 14:21

Also I would not return to a club full of men that kept trying to grope me.

JLou08 · 02/03/2025 14:26

Yes it is assault, just because we accepted it when we were young doesn't make it right. I think it's great that the younger generation are standing up to this. There are ways to have fun and approach the opposite sex without sexual assault.

Laralou999 · 02/03/2025 14:30

I know where you’re coming from as when I first started going out this was the norm. Didn’t think much of it, just was part of the parcel of going out. That was around 12 years ago. Last December a colleague really squeezed my bum on a night out (both full hands on both cheeks), I had to tell my DH and felt quite gross about it. I think it’s good in a way that they respect themselves to know it’s not acceptable. At the same time reporting it as assault I’m not sure what outcome they are hoping for

JHound · 02/03/2025 14:31

ventandrant · 01/03/2025 12:15

Lots of replies here thank you. Mumsnet is very different to real life views though and it often is. In my opinion I wouldn't call it sexual assault and neither do most people i have spoken to in IRL .I agree it is wrong- but by going to a club this is what happens - similar to festivals etc. Most of her friends love male attention so that's why they frequent clubs and festivals. One of my friends who has a teenage son says life for him is horrendous as he can't look or speak to a girl without being accused of inappropriate behaviour, so he doesn't go out all now. My DD is similar and if she doesn't feel safe anywhere where men may be that is fine as I understand it is her choice but I just want whats best for her and I think consent and the media has gone a bit far and some young people are becoming scared to socialise.

Her friends parents have gone to the police (but DD's friends is 19 so an adult) so the police are not being that helpful. Not sure if this is really the right way to go but obviously my views are very different to everyone else on this forum.

I met my DH in a club and he looked at me a few times in a row at different pubs around our local town - then one week in a club he touched my shouldrand we got talking and that is how we got together. I don't want my DD to be scared of a man looking at her otherwise how is she ever going to start a relationship. At present she wants to never have a man in her life as and adopt children - this is fine but can also see her being very lonely.

You have a lot of internalised misogyny to unpack OP.

You also have an unhealthy obsession with your teenaged daughter’s dating life.

RumpledSilkSkin · 02/03/2025 14:41

Tell the bouncer there and then . Ask to see cctv . They should then kick the culprit out .

RumpledSilkSkin · 02/03/2025 14:51

Californianpoppy · 01/03/2025 13:14

Even back in the old days we've didn't enjoy it. You ran the gauntlet everything you went out. By my early 20s, if I was quick enough, I could grab their fingers and twist them. It was definitely assault. The worst was at festivals, down the front.

I wish I had the bottle to do that in my younger days . No cctv so more likely to have got punched in the face . I saw it happen.

FaithFables · 02/03/2025 15:00

It was common when I used to go clubbing in the 90s, but that didn't mean we'd tolerate it. I punched a lad who wouldn't leave me alone once, he started by pinching my bump and escalated to groping my boobs. He refused to take no for an answer. Managed to make his nose bleed, was quite proud of that as I'm tiny. 😂I think your dd has the right attitude.

Bucksman · 02/03/2025 16:43

I am a man. Here are my thoughts on this.
It is 100% wrong not only for the woman but very much also for the man.
We men need to be fantastic.
We need to have impeccable behaviour and standards and to be positive role models.
I am not retired.
This is how I did things in my youth in Spain and indeed it was the norm.
I went to dance classes for Pasodoble, Merengue, Waltz etc.
I was not good. I just learnt a few steps so that I could move around the dance floor.
I went in the evenings to places that were well known for dance.
System: I approached women and said something like: “You in a dancing mood tonight”?
Got replies:
“Yes sure let’s do it”.
Or
“No thanks, I am good without for now”.
Most times it was just one dance, sometimes again later, usually multiple dance partners. Sometimes see the same person another night.
Occasionally something romantic would develop.
If you went often enough it was an almost guarantee that sooner or later romance would happen.
We never groped. We had no need. Just be patient.
To grope a person who does not want it is begging for attention, a lack of self respect and in a sense theft.
It would help if they would turn the volume down at these nigh clubs so that people could have civilised conversations.
Men need to learn to be fantastic and the rest will follow naturally.

Bucksman · 02/03/2025 16:52

Not should be now in my previous post

AffableApple · 02/03/2025 18:12

Maitri108 · 02/03/2025 14:03

He apologised as he didn’t realise I was married.

What does that mean?

I don't know the full quote this is taken from, but he wasn't really apologising to the woman in the sort of scenario I'm imagining in the longer version. He was apologising to the husband in absentia, for trespassing on his territory. Women are property. If you're single, you're deemed fair game and up for it.

Maitri108 · 02/03/2025 18:15

AffableApple · 02/03/2025 18:12

I don't know the full quote this is taken from, but he wasn't really apologising to the woman in the sort of scenario I'm imagining in the longer version. He was apologising to the husband in absentia, for trespassing on his territory. Women are property. If you're single, you're deemed fair game and up for it.

Edited
Show quote history

It came from the thread above. A woman said she was molested and the man said he didn't know she was married. I interpreted that to mean it was fine to molest single women.

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