Secretly Recorded by GP

[UPSETPATIENT]

I am seeking advice on a matter. I found out my accident that my GP recorded a telephone appointment without permission. I have complained to the practice and ICB, however they have not done anything. Does anybody have any advice or suggestions

@SleepyRich it is against the law for the practice to record unless they have a policy like this in place which seems to cover all the points I can think of that are relevant: https://kingswinfordmedicalpractice.nhs.uk/surgery-information/policies/practice-call-recording-policy/

it is not against the law for a patient to record their own consultation as the information is personal to them and they are their own data handler.

"Against the law" would not be a civil matter, and would not be "frowned upon". It isn't against the law. It might not be permissible to use the recording eg as evidence in a civil action, but the mere act of recording is not against the law.

All telephone calls to a GP surgery are recorded - consultations, the appointments line, enquiries and prescription requests. It’s standard practice.

https://mdujournal.themdu.com/issue-archive/autumn-2019/all-calls-are-monitored

text quoted from the article.

Doctors should also ensure that they comply with relevant GMC guidance, Making and using visual and audio recordings of patients. This advises giving patients the information they want about the purpose of recording, and making recordings only where you have appropriate consent or other valid authority for doing so. This applies to all calls with patients – not just incoming calls.
The GMC guidance also advises that recordings must not be made against a patient's wishesand reasonable steps must be made to inform callers that their calls may be recorded. While it is common practice for GP practices to record their incoming calls and give an appropriate warning, it is harder to automate a warning message on outgoing calls and internal calls within the practice.

It is quite disconcerting how many doctors and healthcare professionals (HCPs) are willing to engage in unethical practices. I am inclined to believe that those who find it acceptable to record patients without their consent are much more likely to participate in dishonest and unethical behavior.

I do agree with you OP that they have failed to inform you that calls are recorded and this is not ok. It should be transparent. There should be information given to patients to make them aware via the website and phone system

However no, a GP can’t just turn it on and off themselves as usually only very senior manager has access to the system and that just isn’t how it works telephony wise there isn’t a ‘stop recording’ button on the GP’s phone handset. The recordings are also usually only accessed at a top level if you want a copy of this you are entitled to it. Generally there are too many calls to listen to them all they are only retrieved in the instance of a problem or concern coming up.

@UPSETPATIENT You’ve been given people’s opinions and advised on routes of recourse over 14 pages now. You’ll never know unless you actually approach them and ask to discuss it. It’s starting to seem a little bit like a good old GP bashing thread.

Surely it's a given that calls are recorded.

Except that it is NOT a given that those calls are recorded. If you’ve read the thread, you’d have learnt why!

I mean, I think I’m going to record my GP consultations too. To protect myself because I’ve been gaslighted so often and notes don’t reflect what was said in the electronic records.
It will be ok right? I legally can do and don’t even have to tell the G so it’s all good.
And if it comes back to the GP, it destroys my relationship with them because they won’t trust me anymore, it’s ok too. They just have to get over it because they do it too 😁😁

Ask any HCP and see what they say about it and whether they’d feel comfortable about it.

@LionME do you really think you’d be the first? If you want to do it do it.
Do you hold the same energy for your insurance company, Amazon, the Asda online shopping helpline? Or let me guess, another poster that clearly just has a gripe with doctors (who generally are trying to help you and others) than anything sensible to add to the conversation.

@LionME you can record them but I think if you approach any HCP this aggressively they might become wary of your motives or intentions. You can just discuss it with them politely.

I hope people do know a lot of HCP are employees and don’t make up the rules or invent the systems. Take up your beef with someone senior or the organisation rather than entering into conflict with your HCP who is trying to help with your health conditions - as they are employed to do.

If HCP would be wary of patients recording them - why would they think it okay to record patient. It seems like a double standard.

You see? You all have a problem with me recording the GP without telling them!!

And yet the OP is supposed to suck it up.

Youre both proving my point perfectly. It’s not normal and it’s extremely annoying /unsettling for GPs to do that for many reasons.
The fact GP are (mostly) trying their best nor the fact they are ‘just’ employees is not here, nor there. We’re talking systems here. Not about individuals. It’s not a oerson al attack against a certain group. It’s about respect, building trust between patient and practitioners and following rules.

But the fact you’re automatically thinking I’m the one being aggressive, trying to prove a point just confirms that it’s ok to feel that way when the roles are reversed (and GP are secretly recording consultations which is illegal fir them to do)

Have you actually read the thread. This isn't a GP bashing thread. I made post about my GP recording me without informing me and my consent. I am upset about about this serious breach of trust. You may disagree with my feelings but they are valid and entitled to be upset. I have already raised it the matter with the practice manager. She was very dismissive. I approached the ICB and they stated they cannot do anything about it because the GP has already responded. I have requested to be de-registered.

Are you going to check with your new practice if they record calls? Will you not register if they do?

It seems very lots of double standards. Most HCP wouldn't want to be recorded yet they feel are entitled to record patients without their knowledge and consent.

No, I will not register.

You don’t need to request to be de registered, you simply need to register at another practice. The process usually takes a few days, but it’s fairly straight forward and all your electronic medical records get transferred over to your new practice as soon as they complete the registration. Make sure you have enough of any repeat meds, as when you switch your repeats will stop until they’re authorised by your new practice (we have an in house pharmacy team who deal with new patient medication reviews, we advise having a month’s worth of any meds when you register with us so you’re not left short until we can get you in with a pharmacist)

Telling your practice you want to de register is the medical version of doing a flounce - you just need to get a new GP lined up and register with them yourself.

All calls are recorded at our practice, so reception up to partners, with all manner of HCPs in between are recorded, and have no issue with it.

I honestly wouldn’t give two hoots. Likewise as well as being an HCP I am also a patient, and I would (don’t) give two hoots that I would have been recorded as a patient at my practice.

I feel like you don’t want to listen. If you have a right go at a nurse for instance for recording a call, she didn’t do that herself, it’s her employer who bought the call system and activated it and that HCP has no way of turning it off. Don’t waste your time and that of HCP complaining to the wrong person. If you want to record a consultation, POLITELY let them know which is the right way to go about it. You can raise an issue without being rude, abrasive or conflictual. You can find out the right person to raise your concerns with.

Thank you for the advice.

I think you are entitled to feel that way. However, not everybody feels them same. I know that not every HCP would be comfortable with being recorded.

So what happens if you can't find a single local GP surgery that doesn't record phone calls? You just won't have a GP?
Why make life so difficult for yourself?
Now that you know all calls are recorded, surely you can just keep phone calls to a minimum now with minimal sensitive info and save that for the face to face meetings?

I will not have a GP. In the grand scheme of things, GPs generally don't care about whether a patient is registered. They probably prefer not to have a patient like me on their books, as patients can be a cost to the practice. GPs often prefer patients who are healthy, fit, and do not require appointments or monitoring. However, I will still be seen and monitored by my other medical teams, with whom I have a good relationship and rapport. I will be fine.