Secretly Recorded by GP

[UPSETPATIENT]

I am seeking advice on a matter. I found out my accident that my GP recorded a telephone appointment without permission. I have complained to the practice and ICB, however they have not done anything. Does anybody have any advice or suggestions

When would it be deleted, then? I took quality control to mean for the purpose of reviewing and improving service delivery.

You are boring me

I would complain directly to the information commissioners office if they haven’t acted on your complaint. They should ask consent or at minimum tell you that they are recording and should only keep the recording as long as necessary to make a written medical record.

If you go to the NHS app (not the Covid one) you will see all your detailed consultations, regardless of it being face 2 face or telephone. How else are they supposed to remember all the details if they don’t record it. Not sure why it’s a problem.

Read the thread.

Our phone says calls maybe recorded for training and quality purposes. We've never had training but it has been used when someone disputed that the GP had rung him and they had a conversation. The customer is not always right.

You know that recording info from the patients in notes (used to be paper, now electronic) is not the same as a voice recording?

The amount of information in a voice recording is huge compared to notes….

I wouldn’t give my consent either when I got counselling.
My GP already has the tendency to assume all my symptoms are ‘anxiety’ despite many diagnosis by consultants. I’m not going to tell them I’m having counselling/give them more info to feed their story

All health information is considered sensitive/private - mental health info isn't treated differently or put on a pedestal. Under the shared records service most records are shared across nhs trusts - I sometimes take shifts in one of the ambulance operations centres and when triaging calls we will access the patients records - obviously you don't know what isn't shared, but comprehensive notes from consultations both from GPs and mental health teams are accessible - but they're treated privately and only viewed in the context of a patient I'm involved in the care of.

I'm aware when I refer into our local mental health team that calls are recorded. The crisis team work out of the same building as me and their calls are recorded. However I can understand why some MH teams wouldn't want their calls recorded - it's a 'high risk' area to work in, patient's will often talk about ending their life but when the clinician knows them and taken in the context of their history it's quite possible that they could be consider them low risk. - and they'd document the conversation appropriately but wouldn't want a recording to be listened back retrospectively.

All access can be monitored - whilst the system would allow me to open pretty much anyones health records you'd absolutely only ever access a patients records that you were triaging/had a justified reason to be in and access is monitored so if I went looking up colleagues/friends/celebrities.

Whilst I don’t personally disagree with my GP recording any calls, I would suggest that the information being on their website isn’t actually informing people. Yes the information is available to those with internet access and the skills to find it but if you have no idea you’re likely to be recorded, you wouldn’t go looking for that 🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s therefore not “informing” it’s “making information available”.

Absolutely, they would need to start and stabilise any specialist medications/titrate to effect, only then would a GP consider continuing the prescription & taking over that care - couldn't do that without continuity/sharing of records.

But it's not like any GP is going to be browsing someone's records for no reason, they're only going to be read through the info if they have to as part of a consultation/decision making process. If the records aren't shared then it just increases the risk of patient harm because continuity is broken. If you want the best opportunity to be safe as a patient you want your Dr to have access to all your records.

From a clinician level you can't really see the extent of how records are shared. For instance as a Paramedic i'll see a patient in crisis/medical event/been assaulted - our notes will just go into the shared record a which any nhs clinician will have access to - so if you goto a podiatrist for example they would have access to that event too. I have no powers to hide it or share it with a particular team, the only option actually is make it so the patient would be unable to view it on the app/records request.

I suppose it's not a million miles away from the elaborate terms and conditions document that come with any service/insurance/contract/software instillation - pages and pages of information for which I suspect the huge majority of people just click 'accept' without reading (myself included). The information was there and I could have spent an hour or 3 reading it to be fully informed but I didn't and will just have to hope that my installing the amazon shopping app on my phone didn't give them access to livestream my camera as part of some really dull video show.

I wondered how my hospital consultant had such accurate notes of our discussions 🤣. Either he had 100% word for word recall, (even for the irrelevant bits) and typed up in huge detail the minute I left the room or he had computer assistance.

Sleepy Rich, I respectfully disagree with you. Mental health information is treated differently. Doctors are legally allowed to withhold information from patients if they believe that sharing it would cause harm. Sometimes, psychiatrists write different letters—one for the patient and another for the general practitioner (GP). A psychiatrist can summarise information for the GP and request that it not be shared with the patient. Similarly, a patient can request that certain information not be disclosed to their GP.

In my experience, mental health professional are much sensitive in how they handle information and the questions they are ask. Patients are within their right to ask the psychiatrist not share information - GP and other professionals are generally trained on how to handle mental health issues.

Mental health teams maintain different records. For example, notes from IAPT (Improving Access to Psychological Therapies), counselling, and therapy are often stored on separate systems, and only authorised staff can access these records. It is very unlikely that someone like would be able to access these notes. The crisis team hotline operates similarly to services like 111, the ambulance service, and the police; calls to this line are recorded. I've contacted 111 before, and they inform you that calls are recorded for quality and safety purposes.

The GP do not provide medical evidence for PIP, so how else I am supposed to get the evidence. You evidently did not read the thready. Before calling someone a time waster, maybe have a looks at yourself and consider why you need to jump on someones thread and start attacking them.

I saw my consultant talk into a phone type of thing. They wrote the notes right in front of me. I think it types them up.

Sleepy Rich, I appreciate your perspective; however, as a paramedic, you may not have full insight into how mental health teams operate. While psychiatrists and other mental health professionals might share diagnoses and instructions regarding medication, they don’t necessarily disclose all information, such as a person's trauma history. General practitioners and other professionals don’t need access to this information.

GP and other professional can be very discriminatory and prejudiced when patient has mental health issues. They often assume every symptoms is related to mental health.

When I telephone my surgery they have a menu for the different departments. The first thing you hear is that telephone calls are recorded for training or other purposes. If you do not like to tell the receptionist why you want an appointment, there is the alternative of messaging online to the surgery. I don't mind what is recorded, personally. I have been registered at my surgery for far too long to mind.

I personally don't think it is important. If it really worries you, contact them online, or write a note and explain your concerns. GP surgeries really don't want to upset the patients. That sort of stress increases their workload.

Look at it another way: would you rather the doctor forgot half of what you were discussing, or should he/she record everything you said so that they can be sure the record is correct?

A recording can help you in some circumstances.

You cannot have it both ways. How can a GP who has so many patients on their books, and probably half a dozen with the same name, remember the conversations with each one.

If you write the GP a letter, then only what you write will be in your notes, and the record only has what information you are prepared to give.

When I call my GP surgery, I have the possibility of requesting a call back from the GP, which I always get.

I don't mind if he records the conversation. How can the poor s-- remember all the rantings of all the patients going on about their symptoms without recording it somewhere? If be has to make notes, he wouldn't have any fingers left.

Just picture the image of the doctor sitting there, phone in one hand, scribbling away on paper what you are saying, and working out what meds to prescribe.

I have a wonderful GP. He gave my late husband six more years with me. I wouldn't punish him that way. Why would anyone?.

A GP wouldn't use the recording to make a written record of the consultation- they would do either partly in real time during the consultation or in between calling another patient (perhaps a couple of minutes)

GPs are legally required to write medical notes, but that is not the issue I am referring to. This is actually a separate matter from what I discussed previously. GP records and telephone recordings are not the same thing. From what I understand, GPs keep records of patients in case there is a complaint. However, my GP has not informed me that they make audio recordings of patient consultations. It seems they covertly record conversations in case a patient decides to file a complaint. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t inform patients that their telephone conversations are being recorded.

I suspect you do not understand what is being discussed. I think you are mixing up medical records and telephone recordings. It seems from this thread, that GP record patient in case they make a complaint. Essentially they are covertly recording patients. It rather underhand and sneaky - it would make sense for them to tell the patient they are being recorded.