There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

It was a horrible thing to witness, I think we can all agree, and it has been reported to the police. Of course it was upsetting, but I'm not sure what you want from this post, people are going to say you should be more compassionate, so you seem to want an argument. It is illegal I would think, to piss all over a train and be intoxicated and out of control in public.

The effect is not different. He was a strange man with his penis out, pissing at people. Whatever the intent (or lack of), the effect was the same on those around him.

Thing about alcohol- it is the acceptable drug. It;s not illegal to drink and it is an addictive drug that is socially acceptable to consume yet everyone who consumes it is at the end of the day probably addicted even in a small amount. Alcohol is the very last acceptable drug to take. British culture- we drink and we get drunk and we laugh about drunkenness and we socially bond over this. Yet we abhor people who become truly addicted to a drug that society pushes at every single level OF society. And blame them for becoming addicted to an addictive drug. And think 'I'm not like that'. And feel smug for not being like that.

The man you saw, OP - is having a very bad time in life. You might possibly be better to think 'There but for the grace of god'. Because I guarantee you will at some point have a 'weakness'. Hopefully you can move through whatever that is for you with purpose.

I totally understand your viewpoint from one perspective. It's nasty and horrible to see this in public.

However if I take a look into the future, I think my own brother could be like this in 20/30 years time. Pushing 40 and been addicted to alcohol and drugs for 20 years, tried some many rehabs and detox programmes. Nothing works. I can only imagine it getting worse.

He has a self pitying nature and an addictive personality plus bad depression and insomnia.
He was such a sweet child. No one sets out in life to be like this. Very sad.

However I won't pretend it's ok, and people shouldn't have to witness these things so I voted YANBU.

im not sure what the point of this thread is but obviously it’s not on for drunk people to expose themselves, however…. There but for the grace of god go I….. no one thinks this is good… what point are you trying to make?

Not all alcoholics have a horrific life story. Sometimes alcoholism is self inflicted and I think that's why people often find empathy in short supply.

YANBU. I don't get all the vitrue signalling on here. To be so drunk that you publicly urinate and expose oneself is gross, gross, gross.

Whatever the intent (or lack of), the effect was the same on those around him.

The effect may not have been the same on others, people with different back stories and opinions may have felt differently.

The impact on you was you felt afraid, angry and upset and that is understandable given your previous experiences.

Legally speaking, intent is relevant when determining whether a crime was committed, whether someone is guilty, what the appropriate sentence would be.

It actually isn't. Only if with intent to cause distress.

Given by how up tight you are being, I am not surprised you are so shocked and offended at the sight of a penis.

I understand your anger, OP. I'm the widow of an alcoholic who put me and my DC through hell, and my mother also ended up an alcoholic. I run a RL support group for the relatives of addicts - that's my way of reacting. And yes, my late husband also pissed in some very random places in the home towards the end, and I was very angry with him.

But I hope you find some support to help you work through all those difficult feelings and reach a point where you are at some kind of peace.

Unpleasant all round. He should be in some kind of institution, being looked after is my opinion.

Hang on what? It's 'uptight' to suggest it's disgusting to get your dick out and piss in public on the tube? Ok, I'm uptight.

Would you really be ok with seeing a random man's penis like that?

Nobody is saying that. The behaviour of alcoholic is often disgusting and unacceptable. My husband is an alcoholic, so I know this only too well. What people are saying is that there is more to it than that. The person themselves isn’t disgusting, they are ill. My husband has been sober for 6 years now, with just one single brief lapse in that time. At his worst, he was horrible, but when not in the throws of addiction, he is a lovely, intelligent, kind, funny man.

What a nasty, disgusting thing to say. Women are perfectly entitled to be ‘uptight’ about men exposing themselves.

I wouldn't like it either op but at the same time he was old and an alcoholic. Got to feel sorry for him if anything.

You're throwing up straw men with the "oh so it's fine for him to do XYZ because he's an alcoholic?" which literally nobody is arguing. Nobody is saying it's fine. What they're saying is that if we actually want to solve the problem, we need to approach it in a way that involves some compassion. Throwing someone in a cell for a night or fining them might appease your sense of justice but it does nothing to solve the problem. This man will still be an alcoholic the next day.

To me, just saying "alcoholism is a choice" and talking about sending them for a night in the cells is lazy and simplistic. It appeals to people's desire to "grab the pitchforks" but it doesn't seek to actually reduce the impact on victims (such as everybody on the train who witnessed the behaviour), because the desire to punish is greater than the desire to actually protect society. If we want to eradicate alcoholism then we need to understand and treat the root causes rather than just punish what we see as purely a moral failing.

🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

At some point drinking alcohol was a choice and he kept drinking until it became an addiction. Nobody becomes an addict with one drink or ten drinks. People believe that homeless people end up turning to drugs or alcohol from having to live on the streets when actually research found 'Two-thirds of homeless people cite drugs or alcohol as a reason for first becoming homeless' according to Street connect and I think I've also read the same on Crisis. The issue was already there before they became homeless.

I don't know why people are saying 'There but for the grace of god go I' when it's really easy not to become an alcoholic - and i say that as someone who drank plenty in my youth and didn't become one (or piss in front of people) and now don't really drink at all. It's not difficult not to become an alcoholic and no one should have to see some random blokes cock pissing everywhere. Grim.

I don't tend to comment on such threads however it is getting beyond a joke now, it seem the general consensus on MN that people are allowed to do whatever they like and an excuse is ALWAYS forthcoming,
As above, a bloke gets his cock out in public in front of children therefore probably causing them psychological trauma, but according to MN that's ok because' it's not his fault, it's the addiction that's caused it, fuck off, have we now become a nation that is law less because everyone had a piss poor excuse for any stupid action,
Mass killing of innocent children?? MN = aww it wasn't his fault, he had MH issues/ addiction problems,
Stabbed his/ her wife repeatedly after Subjecting them to DV for 20yrs,
MN - ahh it wasn't anybody's fault, it was the drink/ drugs/ mental health problems/ child hood trauma/ he/ she might have a bad home life

Young child experiences SA by parent throughout childhood, is there empathy and sympathy for the child?? Is there bollocks, as MN will confirm that it wasn't parents fault, ' they had MH/ addiction issues'

🤣

MN seems to be do what you like regardless of the damage you inflict because you never have to take responsibility for your actions as there is a vast array of excuse which can justify it.

None of us are perfect, I am guessing that 99% of people have a sob story to tell, me included, however this does not give anyone the excuse to behave like a twat,
Have I behaved like a twat in my life and made poor choices , absolutely, but that was my own doing and I learnt my lesson, took ownership of said twatty behaviour and gave my head a shake, that's what grown ups do,
Nobody is ever made accountable any more due to fucking do gooders making excuses for them.
& before anyone jumps on the ' you don't understand train' I can confirm I am an Ex addict/ alcoholic so I have first hand experience, and do you no what it wasn't due to anything else apart my shitty behaviour and poor choices,

It's about time individuals are held to account for their shitty behaviour and are made to pay the price, not be enabled to continue said shitty behaviour by dickheads who do the ' there there, it's not your fault you took out your knob in public'
Being drunk does not stop you from knowing the difference between right & wrong'

I await the onslaught from other posters, of what a horrible person I am for speaking the truth, on your marks Mumsnet and off you go..........

How dare you.
It is an illness, much like dementia and vascular dementia is sometimes "self inflicted" according to your terminology.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/risk-factors-vascular-dementia

But no, he shouldn't be exposing himself, this should be dealt with appropriately

Some people have a physiological predisposition to become addicted to alcohol, some don’t. Everyone who starts drinking alcohol starts the same way, some are sucked into addiction. It’s not as simple as choice.

How many people drink? How many people start drinking thinking "I'm going to have a drink so that when I'm an old man I can wee freely on the tube and expose my self to everyone in the process then fall out the door onto the platform - that's my plan!'.