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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Trump is not going to honor any agreement about Ukraine

161 replies

FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 13:34

I'm seeing that Starmer is going over to say to Trump that he should offer security guarantees with the deal with Ukraine.

I just don't believe that Trump or America will honor any agreement made.

And what consequences can we leverage on them to make them do so? I'm not sure there enough levers to do so.

We've allowed them to have an outsize influence on world affairs and now the tiger is eating our face.

OP posts:
MichaelandKirk · 27/02/2025 22:41

And what on earth is the point of Lammy??

Whatafustercluck · 27/02/2025 23:15

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 22:06

Absolutely sickening to watch Stamer sucking up to Trump.
I understand why he has to do this though and feel for him.

This nails it for me. We can all see multiple leaders sucking up to a despicable, woman hating, wholly dysfunctional, bullying imbecile purely because otherwise he'll pull our pants down, give us a wedgy, steal our lunch money and kick us to the floor for good measure. And it is sickening because there is no other solution. And we don't even know if courting this disgusting excuse of a man will even resolve anything. It all feels so hopeless. There's not even any point in being angry any more. The shit will just keep raining down and we're all just destined to watch the car crash unfold.

DdraigGoch · 27/02/2025 23:30

MrsPernicious · 27/02/2025 19:34

Suddenly Macron's call for a European army seems quite sensible.
Plus even more doubt is cast about interference in the Brexit vote.

20 years ago middle class Russians were really busy sending their children to UK schools because we were all European.

A European Army wouldn't be sensible. The Germans would be trying to avoid it getting involved in anything while the Hungarians would be trying to sabotage it. At least Britain and France are currently able to act unilaterally.

LaurieFairyCake · 27/02/2025 23:35

Starmers doing a great job, he just did a Macron and corrected Trump when he said the money was loaned to Ukraine

Starmer said no, it's a gift

What's totally not shocking is nut job Trump saying he doesn't remember saying Zelensky was a dictator and said he was 'brave'

Wtf ! 😳😳😳

He's literally pretending he didn't say something recorded on camera a week ago !!

The other thing starmer has him agreeing to is a (somewhat) backstop - trump has just said that no one will be attacked while the Americans are there getting the minerals

theboffinsarecoming · 27/02/2025 23:35

The words 'Trump' and 'honour' do not belong in the same sentence. Many things he may be, but honourable is not one of them.

528htz · 27/02/2025 23:41

He'll probably backtrack on all this tomorrow anyway.

FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 23:43

@528htz God only knows what nonsense or bile he'll be emitting next.
He's totally insane.

OP posts:
100PercentFaithful · 27/02/2025 23:49

Trump/Fart is a ridiculous oversized child.
When Kier Starmer gave him that letter from the King it totally reminded me of a child being given ‘Star of the Week’ by a Reception teacher.
Fair play to Starmer it seemed to do the trick though. He’s worked out the way to get the best out of Trump - butter him up.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 27/02/2025 23:50

Wish Trump and Putin would both just hurry up and die tbh

MarsScarlet · 28/02/2025 00:39

This is an article from Russian online news Izvestia about Sir Keir Starmer's visit. It is of interest due to the obvious different bias. (I won't provide the source as it is Russian.)

"On February 27, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer is scheduled to follow French President Emmanuel Macron’s example and meet with US President Donald Trump in Washington to discuss Ukraine and European defense capabilities. Like Macron, Starmer will certainly try to dissuade Trump from engaging with Moscow.

"Kier Starmer, Emmanuel Macron, and German chancellor-elect Friedrich Merz now represent an anti-Trump bloc. Its task is to derail Trump’s peace initiatives," former Ukrainian Prime Minister Nikolay Azarov told Izvestia in an interview.

"Even if Starmer fails to influence Trump at a personal meeting, Britain will continue to undermine dialogue between Moscow and Washington anyway as it seeks continued bloodshed and hostilities in Ukraine, Rodion Miroshnik, the Russian Foreign Ministry’s ambassador-at-large in charge of overseeing the Kiev regime’s crimes, believes. "Britain is unique in that it does many things under the radar rather than overtly. And it holds major leverage on Ukraine’s special services and military units that it has been using so that the Moscow-Washington dialogue should not happen. <…> London always feels much more comfortable where there is a divide between Russia and the United States," the diplomat told Izvestia.

"The UK may challenge the Trump administration’s efforts to settle the Ukraine conflict by increasing assistance to Kiev so that the latter can stay afloat and continue hostilities," said Tigran Meloyan, an analyst at the HSE Center for Mediterranean Studies. Or else, the expert continued, Britain could undermine the settlement process by sending European troops to Ukraine in a move that would be unacceptable to Russia and could even sign the death warrant of any negotiations.

"It’s worth noting though that this initiative was put forward by Great Britain, not an EU-member state, and France but was never supported by the others in the EU," Meloyan added.
However, to exert pressure on London, Russia could use the pricing mechanism for oil, which, in turn, affects gasoline and consumer prices and would inevitably hurt the British economy, Ivan Loshkaryov, Associate Professor of the Department of Political Theory at MGIMO University, argues. "Besides, Russia may and will likely raise the issue of Britain’s destructive role at international venues, primarily at BRICS, the United Nations, at G20 meetings, and bilateral talks with the United States," the expert concluded.

sleepwouldbenice · 28/02/2025 00:40

528htz · 27/02/2025 23:41

He'll probably backtrack on all this tomorrow anyway.

That's what I think. Whomever last muttered in his ear and flattered him

Poor King Charles tbh

Lampzade · 28/02/2025 00:49

100PercentFaithful · 27/02/2025 23:49

Trump/Fart is a ridiculous oversized child.
When Kier Starmer gave him that letter from the King it totally reminded me of a child being given ‘Star of the Week’ by a Reception teacher.
Fair play to Starmer it seemed to do the trick though. He’s worked out the way to get the best out of Trump - butter him up.

Yep

echt · 28/02/2025 01:28

Obviously Trump cannot be trusted to sit the right way round on a toilet.

He wants the Nobel Peace prize, though it would be a larf if it was given to Zelenskyy instead.

TempestTost · 28/02/2025 02:16

Abhannmor · 27/02/2025 15:41

Gorbachev was promised that NATO would not expand to the Russian border. NATO says 'oh yeah but that agreement was with the Soviet union, thats gone now'. Technically true but bad faith nonetheless. They're all liars probably including Zelensky. But if I was him I'd promise Trump the sun moon and stars. Then renege when he's out of office. It's what DT would do.

This.

I don't really think any of these international agreements are very secure. NATO is just as happy to say an agreement is no longer relevant or useful.

What keeps them in place is that they are useful, so it's pragmatic.

So to me I suppose the question is, will the US consider the results of these deals useful? And Is Trump differernt in that he will go back on an agreement that is useful to him because he is in some way perverse?

I'm not sure. I do tend to think it is probably others I his government that are really setting the agenda, and they don't care too much how Trump himself understand the agenda.

OneLemonDog · 28/02/2025 03:59

TempestTost · 28/02/2025 02:16

This.

I don't really think any of these international agreements are very secure. NATO is just as happy to say an agreement is no longer relevant or useful.

What keeps them in place is that they are useful, so it's pragmatic.

So to me I suppose the question is, will the US consider the results of these deals useful? And Is Trump differernt in that he will go back on an agreement that is useful to him because he is in some way perverse?

I'm not sure. I do tend to think it is probably others I his government that are really setting the agenda, and they don't care too much how Trump himself understand the agenda.

I disagree with that last sentence. I dont think Trump is setting the agenda for domestic policy but the international aspects are all him (and the rest of his administration don't really seem to agree with him but will go along for the ride).

Kendodd · 28/02/2025 07:57

sleepwouldbenice · 28/02/2025 00:40

That's what I think. Whomever last muttered in his ear and flattered him

Poor King Charles tbh

I do worry about any state visit. I don't think Trump will be warmly received by the public.
I'm not living in the Trump/Brexit/Putin loving bubble though and I know there are millions of these people.

MushMonster · 28/02/2025 08:08

CaveMum · 27/02/2025 14:18

80+ years of accumulated global soft power has now been obliterated.

Even after Trump is gone, trust in the US will be non-existent as other countries will always worry about “the next guy” tearing things up a la Trump.

Until now, governments could always trust that whether Republican or Democrat, the man behind the desk in the White House would always adhere to social norms and follow the principles established after WWII. That is gone and will take generations, if ever, to get that back.

Exactly this.
Europe, and I include UK in this, will have to go solo, starting with the ceasefire for Ukraine and the removal of Putin from power. Because Europe cannot be safe till Putin and company are gone, preferably to jail in a lost island without internet or mail service.
Otherwise, next we know we are fighting and all Europe war, yet again. At least this time, all Europe will fight together, instead of against each other.
These men are beyond stupid. They think the fake sense of power they have today trumps the economic growth, tech growth, research development and general wellbeing that long lasting peace brings.

UnderHisEeyore · 28/02/2025 08:57

@MarsScarlet thank you for the translation. I still think US and Russia are now in cahoots and Trump has seen he doesn't need to be the one to break the rules to invade but can benefit from the natural resources by offering protection against Russia. It's a world racket. Starmer has buttered Trump up for the cameras but I don't think Trump is ready (or his supporters more to the point) to admit that his eyes are now on reducing US prices by raiding Europe with Russia as their muscle. He's retracted calling Zelensky a dictator because he is enabling this in Ukraine.

EasternStandard · 28/02/2025 09:22

Fascinating to watch how this plays out.

Everyone goes loop de loop over a letter and now the conversation on minerals is normalised.

US and Putin get the resources. But we think we've played a blinder and are happy

It's kind of a master class in shifting the landscape

hamstersarse · 28/02/2025 09:31

I find it so crazy that people criticise Trump for ending a war. His stated aims are to stop the needless killing of young Ukrainian and Russian soldiers.

I have not heard or seen any such sentiment from any European leader in 3 years, they haven’t even tried to talk to Putin. Just think about that for more than 1 second. Not one attempt to stop the bloodshed, instead, just feeding enough money / weapons to keep Ukraine trugging along, killing thousands of people every week. How long were they going to let that go on? What was the plan? Did they really believe Ukraine could win this war ‘on their own’?

I really think people need to think a bit more about what lines they’ve been fed about Trump because if you look at the cold hard facts, he is the only person to try and stop this war

hamstersarse · 28/02/2025 09:36

On him calling Zelensky a dictator.. I really don’t think people are used to seeing proper hard negotiation in action,

Trump wants peace and some money back, Zelensky has been lauded as a superhero for years (in many ways correctly) but he can’t negotiate peace if he just slates Putin and lauds Zelensky. He needs to put Z down a peg or 2, ensure he knows he doesn’t just get exactly what he wants, because that’s actually impossible. Meanwhile, he can’t just slate Putin otherwise he won’t engage at all.

Its negotiation, world class negotiation and however much you want to believe all the Baddy Trump rhetoric, the facts speak for themselves

Howcoulduoudothsr · 28/02/2025 09:39

hamstersarse · 28/02/2025 09:31

I find it so crazy that people criticise Trump for ending a war. His stated aims are to stop the needless killing of young Ukrainian and Russian soldiers.

I have not heard or seen any such sentiment from any European leader in 3 years, they haven’t even tried to talk to Putin. Just think about that for more than 1 second. Not one attempt to stop the bloodshed, instead, just feeding enough money / weapons to keep Ukraine trugging along, killing thousands of people every week. How long were they going to let that go on? What was the plan? Did they really believe Ukraine could win this war ‘on their own’?

I really think people need to think a bit more about what lines they’ve been fed about Trump because if you look at the cold hard facts, he is the only person to try and stop this war

Good points here

NotTerfNorCis · 28/02/2025 09:44

I find it so crazy that people criticise Trump for ending a war. His stated aims are to stop the needless killing of young Ukrainian and Russian soldiers.

By siding with the invader, and further empowering a dangerous dictator. If Trump had been in power in the 1940, he'd probably have been blaming Britain and France for not giving in to Germany, to 'save lives'.

hamstersarse · 28/02/2025 10:18

NotTerfNorCis · 28/02/2025 09:44

I find it so crazy that people criticise Trump for ending a war. His stated aims are to stop the needless killing of young Ukrainian and Russian soldiers.

By siding with the invader, and further empowering a dangerous dictator. If Trump had been in power in the 1940, he'd probably have been blaming Britain and France for not giving in to Germany, to 'save lives'.

So what is your preference?

What would you preferred to have happened?

MrTiddlesTheCat · 28/02/2025 10:20

I have not heard or seen any such sentiment from any European leader in 3 years, they haven’t even tried to talk to Putin.

Then you've not been paying attention. Macron has spoken to Putin 13 times since the war began, Scholz (Germany) 11 times, Michel (EU) 3 times, Meloni (Italy) 2 times, and Finland, Norway, Luxembourg and Hungary.

www.statista.com/statistics/1298459/world-leaders-that-spoke-to-putin-and-zelenskyy/