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Original poster

To think that Trump is not going to honor any agreement about Ukraine

161 replies

FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 13:34

I'm seeing that Starmer is going over to say to Trump that he should offer security guarantees with the deal with Ukraine.

I just don't believe that Trump or America will honor any agreement made.

And what consequences can we leverage on them to make them do so? I'm not sure there enough levers to do so.

We've allowed them to have an outsize influence on world affairs and now the tiger is eating our face.

OP posts:
Dotjones · 27/02/2025 16:08

I think the bigger danger is that Putin won't honour any agreement with Ukraine. Trump will be gone in a few years, Putin will be in his position until he dies. As he gets closer to death the more risks he will be prepared to take to ensure his name is forever remembered - and more importantly, the older he gets the less his life matters to him, so a nuclear annihilation of the planet won't be much of a concern to him. He's often said that if there is no Russia, there need be no world. I think he sees himself as Russia. Without him there's no Russia, therefore without him there need not be a world.

EasternStandard · 27/02/2025 16:11

IdaGlossop · 27/02/2025 15:18

This is the reaction I expect from Starmer's visit to Trump: a warm reception, especially to the rumoured invite to Balmoral; defence budget of 2.5% of GDP by 2027 is not enough; USA will not provide a backstop to keep the peace in Ukraine; a wild card that not even experienced commentators have thought of; a random phonecall in the middle of the meeting- 'I'm here with Prime Minister Starmer. He's a nice guy. We're having a beautiful discussion. Britain is a beautiful country. Nice people. Nice people. I've been there a lot.'

Very good. There's a really good guy on IG who talks about dumplings and his voice is a great impression. Makes be laugh

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 16:12

To me it seems Russia is doing US dirty work for them. Estonia or anywhere else US fancies near Russie will be next.

IdaGlossop · 27/02/2025 16:18

coldandfrostymorning23 · 27/02/2025 16:02

I think the Royal Family are going to have to bite the bullet and marry off one of the girls to Baron Trump… That’s what they would have done in the past.

Show quote history

Great idea. Who should it be? Do we know that Baron is heterosexual? Charlotte is too young. Louise has a boyfriend. Perhaps BT could wait for Lilibet then he would have Meghan Markle as his mother-in-law. That would delight The Donald.

NDornotND · 27/02/2025 16:22

@Dotjones "Trump will be gone in a few years"

Will he? Will he, though? 🤔

Original poster
FancyRedRobin · 27/02/2025 16:30

@NDornotND indeed! We could be in for a long spell with him.

Welcome to the era of the American bully.

OP posts:
petermaddog · 27/02/2025 16:45

i think he is afraid of putin too many murders and trump is a coward/ money (he gets 400,000 per yr) still has to pay for suits from women and he really is deep indebt

unsync · 27/02/2025 17:10

As they are not honouring the current agreement, no, the US can no longer be trusted or seen as credible. The same is of course also the case with Russia, but then that's not a new development.

It is clear that Trump is nothing but a puppet. Based on Trump's record of womanising and amoral behaviour, I bet the FSB has got some 'interesting' material which is being leveraged in Putin's favour.

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 17:55

unsync · 27/02/2025 17:10

As they are not honouring the current agreement, no, the US can no longer be trusted or seen as credible. The same is of course also the case with Russia, but then that's not a new development.

It is clear that Trump is nothing but a puppet. Based on Trump's record of womanising and amoral behaviour, I bet the FSB has got some 'interesting' material which is being leveraged in Putin's favour.

What could Putin possibly have on Trump that would make any difference though? This is a man who has been found by a court in the US to have raped someone. We all watched Jan 6th unfold. He's boasted about grabbing women 'by the pussy'. He refused to release his tax return. Has described himself as 'smart' for not paying taxes.

We saw it all.
It made no difference.

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 18:17

I think earlier on Putin may have had something on him. Now I think they are a double act and merrily preparing to raid the world for fossil fuels together.

OneLemonDog · 27/02/2025 18:19

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 17:55

What could Putin possibly have on Trump that would make any difference though? This is a man who has been found by a court in the US to have raped someone. We all watched Jan 6th unfold. He's boasted about grabbing women 'by the pussy'. He refused to release his tax return. Has described himself as 'smart' for not paying taxes.

We saw it all.
It made no difference.

Show quote history

It's true. Even if the rumored "pee tape" were real, and Russia released it, all it would cause is an increased uptake in water sports by Republican voters.

-If- it is real, Trump probably feared it's release at one time. He doesn't need to anymore.

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 18:22

OneLemonDog · 27/02/2025 18:19

It's true. Even if the rumored "pee tape" were real, and Russia released it, all it would cause is an increased uptake in water sports by Republican voters.

-If- it is real, Trump probably feared it's release at one time. He doesn't need to anymore.

Show quote history

Yeah it would only earn him kudos among the supporters. Not as if the rest of us ever doubted they existed anyway.

They are in cahoots. It's like paying protection money to the same people who would beat you up if you didn't.

IdaGlossop · 27/02/2025 18:29

There's not much diversity in the pics coming out of the Oval Office. All male. All over 50. All on blue or black suits, shirts and ties. Lammy the lone black person. There they all are, making big boy decisions and going about their work of carving up the planet. We're going backwards.

unsync · 27/02/2025 18:41

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 17:55

What could Putin possibly have on Trump that would make any difference though? This is a man who has been found by a court in the US to have raped someone. We all watched Jan 6th unfold. He's boasted about grabbing women 'by the pussy'. He refused to release his tax return. Has described himself as 'smart' for not paying taxes.

We saw it all.
It made no difference.

Show quote history

Well there are things that normal people wouldn't even contemplate doing that might give pause to even the most staunch Trump supporters.

It is true that his behaviour thus far is flagrant and he has got away with it. However, if you accept that men who commit crimes of a sexual nature do escalate, then I'll leave you to think about what kind of material they may have that he might not want made public.

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 18:57

Mummyratbag · 27/02/2025 14:25

I find the whole thing horrendous, worrying and distasteful. Trump has a bloody nerve. The only tiny glimmer of positive I can see is if the US invest heavily in Ukraine to extract minerals there is a level of security in that they won't want their mines/extraction plants taken over by Russia? But then they have been exploited by the US instead. It's all very depressing.

And what if Putin offers a similar deal for exactly the same resources after he takes Ukraine by force? Where's the US interest then in protecting the investment? It is the Ukrainian government money that will be tied in exploration / mining, the US actually does not invest anything new according to the current agreement on the table - just participates in profits (and is able to reinvest the profits too, but with new rare earth exploration and mining we're talking at least a decade until profits emerge).

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:08

EasternStandard · 27/02/2025 15:07

I don't get why we're trusting this either

Why can't Europe provide its own security guarantee rather than rely on Trump. He might say yes and be no

Because the European militaries (with the exception of the French) have for the last 60 years built their entire doctrine on acting in concert with the US. In particular heavy lift logistics and battlefield intelligence (ie spy satellites and planes) have been the US’s responsibility. This is the entire basis of NATO - everyone has a specialist area and is reliant on other nations for other functions. The only nations in NATO with a truly independent military are the US obviously and, to a lesser extend, France and Sweden.

Rebuilding a truly independent military and filling in the gaps that were previously filled by the US will take years and cost billions.

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 19:18

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:08

Because the European militaries (with the exception of the French) have for the last 60 years built their entire doctrine on acting in concert with the US. In particular heavy lift logistics and battlefield intelligence (ie spy satellites and planes) have been the US’s responsibility. This is the entire basis of NATO - everyone has a specialist area and is reliant on other nations for other functions. The only nations in NATO with a truly independent military are the US obviously and, to a lesser extend, France and Sweden.

Rebuilding a truly independent military and filling in the gaps that were previously filled by the US will take years and cost billions.

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^ this

I think another aspect of the situation is that no one can tell for sure to what level exactly NATO troops are functional or dysfunctional without the US participation or even goodwill. It might be that whilst there technically are non-US planes and warheads and tanks, they are just pieces of metal.

MrsPernicious · 27/02/2025 19:34

Suddenly Macron's call for a European army seems quite sensible.
Plus even more doubt is cast about interference in the Brexit vote.

20 years ago middle class Russians were really busy sending their children to UK schools because we were all European.

Mummyratbag · 27/02/2025 19:49

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 18:57

And what if Putin offers a similar deal for exactly the same resources after he takes Ukraine by force? Where's the US interest then in protecting the investment? It is the Ukrainian government money that will be tied in exploration / mining, the US actually does not invest anything new according to the current agreement on the table - just participates in profits (and is able to reinvest the profits too, but with new rare earth exploration and mining we're talking at least a decade until profits emerge).

Show quote history

I don't know! It's all so off the wall.. I grew up thinking that the Russians would nuke us and that the US were the good guys (with NATO) - the older I got the more I realised the latter was not necessarily true, but I never imagined this, so it's hard to see how it could play out. I'm terrified for our kids. Russia hasn't been able to take Ukraine, but I fear them being emboldened and regrouping.

Mielikki · 27/02/2025 19:53

zendeveloper · 27/02/2025 19:18

^ this

I think another aspect of the situation is that no one can tell for sure to what level exactly NATO troops are functional or dysfunctional without the US participation or even goodwill. It might be that whilst there technically are non-US planes and warheads and tanks, they are just pieces of metal.

Show quote history

Yep, De Gaulle seems in retrospect to have been something of a clairvoyant.

Kendodd · 27/02/2025 22:06

Absolutely sickening to watch Stamer sucking up to Trump.
I understand why he has to do this though and feel for him.

monsterfish · 27/02/2025 22:18

Trump is a greedy man without a shred of integrity, but he is not entirely stupid. Wondering if he is playing the long game here. He has said he wants to make Greenland a US state, mainly for the mining opportunities. Denmark not happy but part of NATO. Putin & trump become allies, Putin gets Ukraine with US support & trump gets Greenland with Russian support.

PuttingouttheFirewithGasoline · 27/02/2025 22:32

The eu has had years, Obama was the wake up call years and years ago at least 2016 and billions have gone in the eu black hole of corruption.

UnderHisEeyore · 27/02/2025 22:33

monsterfish · 27/02/2025 22:18

Trump is a greedy man without a shred of integrity, but he is not entirely stupid. Wondering if he is playing the long game here. He has said he wants to make Greenland a US state, mainly for the mining opportunities. Denmark not happy but part of NATO. Putin & trump become allies, Putin gets Ukraine with US support & trump gets Greenland with Russian support.

As long as they stick together and don't touch China they've got the rest of the world on a platter - the bullies of the playground have teamed up.

MichaelandKirk · 27/02/2025 22:38

Wonder how Margaret Thatcher would have dealt with Trump?