To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

There are places in the UK that have this. Where my mum lives is just like this and the bus I'm talking about goes through lots of small villages on its way. I agree we need more.

My parents in their mid sixties would object to you calling them elderly. They are nowhere near the frail and vulnerable people that one would envisage when such a term is used.

Delaying the introduction of a bus pass until someone is 75 is nowhere close to removing all benefits.

Your parents are elderly other pensioners are old. I see.

Nail on the head. Why should a worker with the same income as a pensioner have to pay for public transport when the pensioner gets it as a freebie?

There should be parity and equality according to income/wealth, and we need to scrap all these age related benefits.

There are plenty of pensioners with higher incomes than workers yet the workers are having to pay for public transport, NIC, often student loans, workplace pensions, etc., so end up a lot worse off than pensioners with similar incomes!

Of course low income pensioners need benefits, but they should be means tested and targeted at those most in need.

A retired doctor or dentist with a £75k occupational pension as well as £12k state pension really doesn't need winter fuel allowance or a free bus pass. I'd go further and say they shouldn't even get the state pension if they have an occupational pension almost double the national average wage! Means test the lot!

No need to go on a rant about immigration 🙄

There are many other transport subsidies that would be more beneficial and moral than all people over 65 travelling for free. Low income discounts on travel for example is a much more moral use of the money imo.

I agree. That said it might be better than other options eg paying loads to a consultant to run data. At least this way someone gets something!

I'm now desperately trying to stop myself going down a rabbit hole to learn everything about the economics of this because it's caught my interest 🤣

They may be NOW
give it another decade and that same age group won’t be.
take it away now and it won’t ever come back. I do think it should follow pension age, it’s a great way to keep people out of cars. It also be surprised if it didn’t help the economy. My in laws are London based and always out and about with theirs spending.

Likewise here, our bus and train services are absolute crap in our part of the North West of England. I'd rather that the money spent on giving freebies to pensioners who don't need be spent on improving public transport for everyone so that workers can actually use it to get to work, rather than being forced to buy a car or suffering limited work options due to being unable to get to/from work without stupidly long commutes in terms of time due to irregular bus services, routes that go miles out of the way, bus services where changes mean long waits at random bus stops, etc.

Lol, definitely not. I'm well past middle age, have MS and my commute is 75 miles each way. Neither youth nor distance on my side.

This!
i don't know any wealthy pensioners that are riding the bus because its free instead of driving their cars.
I live in London where public transport is expensive but children and pensioners travel for free. I don't have a problem with this

I disagree with child benefit going to those families too but that's not the subject of this thread. I've said loads of times that I (like most people) have a view on all sorts of benefits that impact different age groups and demographics. The fact that this one impacts old people just means lazy people can cry ageism but if it was a thread about Child Benefit I wouldn't be subject to such accusations even though the impact would be heavily skewed to a certain age group.

I have shared a graph numerous times that show that there is the same amount of poverty amongst pensioners as adults of working age. Pensioner income may be lower but their housing costs are also lower in a lot of cases. This is accounted for in the graph. Nobody ever wants to recognise this. The fact that there are just as many adults of working age that could face the same alleged prospect of being trapped in their own home as they are whist as likely to not to be able to afford a bus fare as a pensioner.

This 100%

I don't think that was @Naunet 's point, OP. I think she/he was pointing out that your bitterness suggests you resent the old having anything nice or helpful, or just to allow them to live at all, as you see it as at the expense of the young. You give no thought to the fact that everything the young now have was worked for and paid for by those who are now old. As you sow so shall you reap. The old now reap (some) benefits from what they sowed, that is now benefitting the young.

This is crazy logic! We can't leave benefits in place that are no longer sensible just because in 10 years time they might be needed again. I do agree with you though that today's 65-74 year olds are uniquely wealthy and other generations will not be so lucky!

@Bumpitybumper I agree with you about the national debt but I can't see a way out of it that doesn't make life miserable for a lot of people. Austerity - the neo-liberal technocrat's fix-all - does not work and we need to have a country that makes money from exports as well as among ourselves. That probably means ditching both neo-liberalism and globalization, both of which work against a country being self-sufficient and against the worth of people's lives as anything other than economic consumer units.
I fear for future generations because the wheels will come off the world soon.

I'm sure it's already been said but bus companies are reimbursed for the ENCTS journeys actually made so if a wealthy old person drives their jag, instead, then nobody is put out of pocket by them being entitled to a buss pass they don't actually use.

Of course I want the old to live. I want my parents and grandparents to be happy and fulfilled. I also want my children to have successful lives and for people of working age to have opportunities to build up enough wealth to enjoy at least some retirement.

My point is that you can't have it all. I posted an article earlier that proved that Baby Boomers were net beneficiaries of the welfare system whilst younger generations stand to be net contributors as they fund a top heavy population pyramid through old age. It's just the way the cookie crumbles and demographics and economic conditions have changed but I won't be told that younger generations have a debt to the older generations when it is much more likely to be the opposite way.

Not quite. It’s been well established that the boomer generation are on the whole net beneficiaries and will have received more in benefits than they will ever have paid in tax.

🤣 We once came across a Rolls Royce (the big old classic style type) parked at our Aldi. Long time ago, before they became just another supermarket. We decided to see if we could spot the owners inside. Rather easy, she had a long mink coat on, and he was in tweeds. Pushing a trolley full of wine and spirits, everyone loves a bargain! 😁

Exactly. So they cost a grand total of nothing.

The point has been made but people still seem to insist that pensioners using off peak travel isn't costing anyone anything because the bus would be running anyway. This simply isn't true!

Means testing has a tendency to hit those on the margins, those just making it and those not quite making it but looking ok. There is also the argument that the well-off/better-off need to get something out of the Welfare State or else they will demand they stop paying for it. What used to be called 'family allowances' for example, were paid to all mothers (I daresay the late Queen got it) and this was progressive use of a benefit - just because a woman had a good income coming into her household did not mean she had access to it, for one, and for another everyone saw they were getting something for their taxes.

Don't know how anyone can think that. Weird.

This boomer has never had a single benefit pound, and nor has her OH. But we did pay a lot into our works pensions and planned for our old age. I’d also add that neither of us took any kind of break from work, so we paid a lot of tax as well down the decades, funding all sorts of things for others. Without feeling bitter about it.

@Bumpitybumper the cost of pensioners using off peak buses is balanced by that keeping the buses running. Yes you are right, the buses might well be axed without this subsidy. That might mean the bus company axes other services too as the whole system becomes unviable. The pensioner subsidy is a way of supporting the bus companies. Why not let pensioners benefit too?
I would also support more subsidies for school children.