To think free bus passes for the old should be abolished?

[Bumpitybumper]

Statistics show that on average wealth peaks at age 65-74 in the UK, why then do we give these people free bus passes? It makes absolutely no sense at all and is just an unnecessary expense. The idea that 'young' pensioners are a relatively poor group of people is completely incorrect and it only serves to enhance the already massive intergenerational wealth gap between baby boomers and everyone else.

a few years ago I used to take an old lady out once a week or so. She was late 70’s. The council changed the bus pass to online renewal and made it complicated.
i found her in tears more than once as she was so worried about losing it because she didn’t know how to renew it. Obviously I helped her, she worried until she had it in her hand

whilst her generation are obviously dying out. It showed how important it is and also how some who would benefit won’t apply for it if they have to. I think that’s the sweeping logic behind everyone getting it, along with getting cars off the road.

We simply can't afford to pay universal benefits in the way you propose. We have an astronomical national debt that we must pay down. Paying out more government money to more people only increases this debt and increases our interest payments which are already crippling our ability fund essential services properly.

We need to get real about what is affordable. In an ideal world everything would be funded and nobody would go without. In the real world we need to start making real decisions and choosing between things. I think this should be spelled out to the public so they understand that benefits aren't being removed out of spite or jealousy.

The arguments about it being more costly are out dated.

they are not. It’s extremely costly and creates arbitrary injustices. It’s not rational but exists because of the politics of envy and the petty .

I would keep free bus passes for the over 75s. I don't deny they are important and needed for this age group.

And yet there are other means tested benefits for pensioners so your argument is flawed.

Which are also irrational and excessively costly ans create arbitrary injustices. They exist because of the politics of the petty.

And Martin Lewis has to do tv shows on who is entitled and how to claim.

Or at any age over state pension age in exchange for handing over their driving licence as a straight swap!

So you’re proposing universal benefits for everyone then?

Or merely the over 65s?

There are a lot of benefits that should be universal , yes. Obviously targeted benefits like disability benefits , no.
Means tested benefits are irrational.

I really wish I had made it clear in the poll that I was arguing specifically about 65-74 year olds not being entitled to a free bus.

To put this into context, my current state retirement age is 68. So all those bleeding hearts posts about 65 year olds not being able to get out of the house without a bus pass sound a bit far fetched when you realise that younger generations will be expected to be working FT and getting to and from work for three years after this age.

Yep, I would be in favour of this.

But does he ever use the bus? Means testing it would be very expensive and probably not cost-effective. To a certain extent, it's self-means-tested. People who can afford cars prefer to use them. Yes, some people will get free travel they could afford to pay for, but most who use it, need it. Remember how low the state pension is. Even with pension credit, it's below the living wage.

I'm in my 70s, and the assumption that I've had it easy makes me angry. Most of us lived in rented accommodation when we were young - self-contained? Forget it. Shared kitchens and bathrooms were the norm. Central heating? I was in my 40s before I got that. Housing was cheaper, and I was able to buy - I moved into and lived in a wreck as my late DH and I did it up around ourselves and our son. We had no hot water at first, and no power in several rooms. Yes, I've benefitted from that house as we bought at the bottom of the market, but we lived though some very tough times.

I do feel for young families now and I know it's really hard. Housing costs are ludicrous and the sale of council housing has made rented accommodation insecure and difficult to afford. High energy and food bills affect us all, but resenting pensioners isn't going to change that.

@Technonan Central heating? I was in my 40s before I got that.

Thats hardly a generational claim. You are a complete outlier if you never experienced central heating until the mid 1990s.

I think the economics of this is much more complicated than it might seem.

is it more expensive administratively means tested or reimbursed as it’s used.
how much more is spent in local shops as a result.
what happens to bus routes if this subsidy is cut.

and then you have the ongoing impact of traffic, and getting encouraging older drivers out of cars. couple those questions with potential reduced bus routes

when you’ve the answers to that, then you actually get to an answer

Yep. It costs £60 a month to send our DD to our nearest secondary school, and that’s at half price fare rate (which we have to pay for a bus pass to get her). Her brother joins her there in September, so it’ll be £120 a month, IF the fares don’t go up.

£1440 per annum, plus £40 for bus passes just to access education.

Meanwhile, my in laws love their free bus passes and use them all the time, despite having two large expensive cars on the drive of their large, expensive, paid off house.

It should definitely be means-tested.

@Technonan

*Most of us lived in rented accommodation when we were young - self-contained? Forget it. Shared kitchens and bathrooms were the norm. Central heating? I was in my 40s before I got that. Housing was cheaper, and I was able to buy - I moved into and lived in a wreck as my late DH and I did it up around ourselves and our son. We had no hot water at first, and no power in several rooms. Yes, I've benefitted from that house as we bought at the bottom of the market, but we lived though some very tough times."

This is the sort of thing that does make people talk about entitled boomers! Do you appreciate that a large number of young people now can't afford a room in a shared house - they are staying at home longer because they can't afford to move out. I don't believe that anything but the most wealthy of young people live in self contained accomodation. I'm in my 40s and we flat shared too - this is not something unique to boomers. I could never have afforded a self contained flat in my 20s and I was earning way above average for my age and area.

You didn't have central heating until you were 40 because you bought a wreck early and did it up slowly. It wasn't the norm to not have central heating in the 90s - with very few exceptions it was either people on the poverty line when the council housing hadn't been updated, or people in your position. My friend didn't have central heating in the 90s and it was very unusual but her parents had bought the house when they first got married in their 20s when central heating was less common and had never prioritised the funds to install it because it wasn't a priority. There is no chance that couple could could afford that house now.

I don't think boomers had it easy but you seem completely unaware of quite how hard the current generation do actually have it.

Surely that is an example of one of the benefits of bus passes for all.

If they didn’t use their bus passes, presumably they would be driving their large expensive cars instead. Fewer cars on the road is a win.

@gesturecritic well said!

My boomer mother makes use of her bus pass regularly. She was moaning recently she couldn't manage her cases on the bus to get to her latest cruise.

She is also one who will reference the fact she had no central heating growing up as a gotcha I had a hard life. And fail to mention the house was big enough to have a stable block ffs.

If a shop bought chicken had risen at the same rate as house prices you would be paying over £50 for a small chicken today. Let that sink in

What do you mean “these people “ we are not some alien beings we are you in what you will find in a surprisingly short period of time. For all the my relative gets it and lives in a castle there are many many more that don’t. Does anyone know what it costs ? I live rurally the buses are a life line. Is a charge incurred when the pass is used? Bus companies are reimbursed when the pass is used.

@Bumpitybumper so all of us who disagree with your post are just "lazy" now are we???

And according to you (and your graphs of course) until pensioners reach 75 , they are all fit, healthy, doing some sort of work, living in a mansion, counting their pots of money, whilst working out which bus to take just for the fun of it.

Well aren't you an absolute delight.🙄

Absolutely it's a benefit of free bus passes for all.

This thread isn't about whether there should be free bus passes for all though. That's an entirely different discussion (but the UK can't afford it so it's not going to happen).

I don't mind if pensioners keep their bus passes, but it most definitely isn't 'fair'. It's a perk given to pensioners specifically for various reasons (and materially because they bother to vote and other groups don't).

Chicken was a luxury back when I was a kid, I guess it would be a luxury again.

I think school transport should be free unless parents don't choose a local school. The cars round our local senior school are dangerous due to the chaos. I assume more kids would catch a bus if it was free.

I live near a primary school which is also bad but primaries are usually smaller and five year olds are less likely to catch a bus even if it was free.