To move my brother to a cheaper care home?

[Rollwithitperhaps]

My brother has vascular dementia and has been in a care home for over 2 years. He is self funding. I have had a few concerns - clothes going missing - no access to his daily regime now (used to have a folder in his room but have now gone digital and cannot get access). They must now be on their well into double digits as far managers are concerned since he’s been there. Just been notified today that his monthly fees will rise by £700 per month to £7300 pm. I’ve been told that if I move him he will deteriorate - he is settled there but largely unaware of very much - he knows my face but not my name or who I am. He only eats and sleeps really. Should I try to find somewhere cheaper that looks after his needs and risk him dipping or leave him where he is?

My mother's pensions plus AA were just over £1k so she had £3500 a month to fund from savings.

Her money did run out after 9 years of funding her own care. What happens then depends on whether Social Services can find a cheaper placement. For my mother, they couldn't, so she stayed where she was. At £7300 I imagine they would look at moving him to be honest.

I broadly agree with you. Realistically I can only see an increasingly dystopian future for the majority of people in UK. I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, it's a horribly cruel disease.

The question of what happens when the money runs out was raised earlier.

It completely depends on the home. It's something that we have been asking as we have been visiting possible care homes for my MIL.

Some care homes in my town (especially the very posh looking ones with amazing facilities which seem like hotels when you visit), will chuck private clients out when the money runs out. They won't always say this openly but other care homes will talk about having new residents who have had to leave their previous home.

Other care homes say that if they accept a self-funded resident, it's their home so if their own money runs out, then the care home will accept the lower council rate.

The one we liked most had a very gentle dog wandering around. It belonged to a former resident, the resident died but the care home let the dog stay.

I agree with your first post.

However, who are these 'strangers' you are complaining about? The ones working in the Care Sector at low wages for long hours.

FWIW you don't come across as being grabby at all.

Care is expensive, my mother without dementia is paying nearly £8k/week, albeit it a lovely home with lovely staff. She chose the home and had saved (she thought) enough to fund it. So to me £7,300 for dementia care doesn’t seem that bad.

Your mother is paying £30,000 a month (£360,000 a year) for a care home? Surely she could have wraparound care in her own home for cheaper than that?

Sorry, I meant a month

It’s still a huge amount, but most of the homes we looked at seemed to be around the same, starting at about £1200 - £1500 a week but with extras soon get to £2k/week

They use up their savings, their pension funds and the proceeds of selling their homes, and sometimes their children or other relatives contribute. Beyond a certain point (16K in savings, something like that) they will get funding but not necessarily for the place where they are used to living.

God, It's disgusting how much care staff are paid by places that charge this much money..

The care system in this country really needs overhauling if you're reading Keir!

I think if you find a better place then it's fine to move him op. You sound like a really caring sister who is trying to do the right thing.

Thank you all so much for your messages - seems like so many are in a similar situation. BTW I label everything with a label gun thing - you can’t remove the label without a special tool - the label has his full name and room number on it - 2 weeks after buying a dozen pairs of socks all had gone missing!

Absolutely this .Spend time finding the best place to meet his needs as he's self funding he will have a much bigger choice.

I'm sorry to hear this is so difficult for you.

You should absolutely be able to see a timetable of activities. Failure to provide stimulation & activities that meet cognitive/ emotional / social needs is institutional abuse. . They should be able to provide details of what happened, when, and with who, and to show choice is offered, and that activities have safe staffing levels and are appropriate for the person. It would be a red flag to me if I was consistently denied access to this information.

Are there activities going on when you visit? Or is everyone sat in rooms or in lounges with TV? Absolutely fine if people choose to do this, but if there are no alternatives, its a problem.
If you usually turn up on specific days, I'd shake things up a bit and turn up when you're not expected to see what's going on.

Moving is stressful for the person But poor care is often worse.

Re a few points in the thread -

On average, it costs around £949 a week for a place in a care home and £1,267 a week for a place in a nursing home (Age UK figures).

If you have over 23k in savings you pay all costs. If you have between £14,250 and £23,250 the council will pay some of the fees. If you have under £14,250 in savings, council will pays all of your fees.

For council funded ( because a few people have mentioned it)- The council agrees rates across their catchment for types of care home placements. They always pay the same amount for the same type of placement in the same care home.
Care homes can charge extra for additional services or facilities they provide above those agreed in the rate the council pays. This is called a top up fee. For example, some rooms in a care home might be larger than other available rooms, or may have a better window view etc. the care home may choose to charge more for these rooms (a top up). The council will always try to offer you at least one placement that does not require a top up. Where the placement is funded and a top up is charged, in most cases, the top up needs to be paid by someone other than the person moving in to the care home. Whoever agrees to pay the top up on your behalf must agree to make the payment directly to the care home for the whole time that you live there and must understand that the top up may increase over time.

Someone mentioned council funding placements of millions a year for children with high needs. I don't know about this, but it certainly would not happen for dementia care. The age UK figures above are pretty standard.

Self funders will obviously have more options than council funded, but expensive care does not always equal better care. And if the money runs out, you will need to move to somewhere within council budget so it is definitely not unreasonable to consider care costs

Moving can be stressful so if money is likely to run out, it is worth considering a cheaper placement early on, So that you are able to remain in the same place. . In my experience the older and more frail the person, the difficult the move is. So if a move is likely, it may be better to get ahead of the curve. But depends on a lot of other factors too.

I think someone mentioned continuing healthcare funding. Where the NHS pays for or makes a direct contribution to care costs. Unfortunately, dementia is classed as a social care need, not a health care need. Where care needs can be provided by care staff, NHS continuing healthcare is not an option. It only becomes an option if nursing care is needed (where care needs can not be met by care workers and require a trained nurse). The threshold is extremely high, it does not sound as if this would apply at this point.

It's such a a difficult situation. It can be difficult to find it, but really good care is out there. I'm really sorry things are so stressful.

We've chosen a care home like this for mum. It is run by two sisters and the care home was their family home at one time. They have assured us that if we were to run out of money they would and have never moved a resident out, they too will work with the local authority to make sure that does not happen, which is very reassuring.

When we had a carers assessment with SS the lady told us to avoid the all singing and all dancing care homes as they were often just out for the money and would turn out a resident the moment any money ran low.

Oooh where did you buy the label gun please? I can't see any that would attach a washable label.

Another who would love the label gun details please.

Specialist secure dementia unit.
most people there have 1-1 care

These are the best

https://fixxon.co.uk/product/clothes-labels/

This. If he is happy and settled that is priceless. There are a lot of awful dementia care homes with disinterested staff. We are on his 8 th pair of glasses and who knows where half his clothes are. There are only 8 men in his section and only 3 of them are mobile yet, seemingly, it’s impossible to find his glasses!

Specialist secure dementia home, majority of residents has 1-1 care!

Do you have lasting power of attorney over his health and or finances? If you have LPA of health then they are legally obligated to give you access to his records.

Can your brother go to the toilet himself still ?

I really sympathise with you, I had similar issue with my Dad who was also in a care home in his early 70s and had a similar level of care. It gets tiring and we did manage to move him in the end. However, do be careful. If you are seen as complaining and having meetings, they can take offence and they don’t like it. I made a few complaints about his care and had meetings with the manager as they fell short on so many issues. The next I knew is they were giving notice and that I had to find an alternative home for him as there was ‘ no more they could do for him’.

No!!! Do not believe the care home. As he is self funding they don’t want him to leave. Many private care homes are struggling as the councils won’t use them anymore. Go to an independent advisor who will know the good homes for him. My friend is a home manager and she needs to have it full otherwise she won’t get her bonus!!