To move my brother to a cheaper care home?

[Rollwithitperhaps]

My brother has vascular dementia and has been in a care home for over 2 years. He is self funding. I have had a few concerns - clothes going missing - no access to his daily regime now (used to have a folder in his room but have now gone digital and cannot get access). They must now be on their well into double digits as far managers are concerned since he’s been there. Just been notified today that his monthly fees will rise by £700 per month to £7300 pm. I’ve been told that if I move him he will deteriorate - he is settled there but largely unaware of very much - he knows my face but not my name or who I am. He only eats and sleeps really. Should I try to find somewhere cheaper that looks after his needs and risk him dipping or leave him where he is?

There is no way the state can pay. We will be lucky to have NHS and a state pension in 25 years.

Having capital enables you to buy good care. People without savings still have to contribute their income and they are not in £7k pm care homes (other than rare cases).

Unfortunately it's likely that alot of care home will be increasing their fees due to increase in NI payments
"from 6 April 2025 the government announced that it will increase the employer rate for National Insurance Contributions from 13.8% to 15%. Furthermore, the threshold at which employers become liable to pay National Insurance Contributions on their employee's earnings will be reduced from £9,100 to £5,000"
So I don't know that you will find comparable care for any/much less.

In the private (very specialist) care homes, fees can be as much as £6000 to £1000 a week.
It is absolutely staggering, but these are the fees some of the private providers charge adult social care (or individuals if they are self funding) to place the most 'challenging' in need of complex 24 hr care.

I was clueless how much dementia care costs per week!

Really shocking.
Not helpful sorry. You do need to consider costs too long term

Clearly that’s what she’s trying to do.

Have you looked at Continuing Health Care funding? I know its not easy to qualify for, but it is available.

My Mam is in a home and despite labelling has someone else's clothes on occasionally! We took photos of her things so if they go missing they can be found.

If your brother is settled and seems happy, I would ge cautious of moving him.

It's not a great situation to be in, hope you get sorted.

There's "no way" the state can pay? Well, there is, but it would mean taxing wealth alongside restoring the top rate of tax to what it was (and tracking that wealth). Which, given the billionaires funding our leading parties, isn't going to happen.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

Might be useful

I was wondering how old he was, you're right, 73 is no age these days and he could go for another 10-15 years at least. I would have a look to see what else there is in your area that could meet your brother's needs without being quite so expensive.

just a bit off topic re his clothes going missing are you sure they are properly labelled??

talking from experience as laundry staff.
Lots of labels do come off during washing and drying cycle (best are the sawn in labels but they still can came off)

laundry staff usually have lost property basket with unlabelled items

It is likely that in 8 years when his money runs out that his dementia will be at a stage where he has significant high support needs and at that point you should look into CHC funding as he might be eligible - if not then I believe the local authority normally will provide some funding.

Well yes, there are countless public services that need funds pumped into them and there is the wealth available in this country, it will not be diverted to public services.

However, I absolutely hate the 'done the right thing', 'worked all their lives' narratives. My dad is a 2 or 3 years younger than OP's brother with vascular dementia and will be a self funder when my mum is no longer able to manage. He should pay for care.

He was 15 years younger than the age his mum developed dementia. I am set to still be paying a mortgage at his age and I don't have much hope of still having my marbles. There will not be a workforce capable of working until 70 to continue to fund their parents' generation.

A family member's care home is £1620 per week.

She has round the clock nursing care, fully liquidised meals, hoist lifting etc.

She has Alzheimers and doesn't know any of us anymore. She doesn't have capacity to lift her own spoon and feed herself, she wouldn't remember how to feed herself or even if we asked her to touch her face, she doesn't have the skills required to do that.

She has been in two different care homes over the past 8 years. The first one was small and they had specialised carers for her. During covid we had video calls every day. They went above and beyond.

This "new" care home, she has been there 2.5 years now and although we've had meetings with management, her things still go missing. We can't blame the residents as they're all bedridden in her unit - has to be carers or cleaners.

If it was only shower gel or the odd cardigan it would be OK, but it's almost everything we bring in.

I can say though that moving her didn't seem to have an impact. However, lockdown and not being allowed visitation had meant she'd deteriorated terribly before that.

It's just all change now and if I were you and not happy, I'd look about other care homes for ideas before deciding for sure.

And I totally get that you don't begrudge paying for it (it's his money) you just want him to be happy.

They don't it is bullshit. Even the very best care home don't charge 11k a week.

I was also going to say it will be taxpayer. I work in a setting that charges that level of money - maximum is about £1000 per day - dependant on needs and level of care.

Paid for by council and social services, so taxpayer.

DM is in a care home in her 50s and pays nothing, it’s entirely council run/staffed and funded, and of the two options, I’d want her in the one she’s in. The £11k payment makes no difference at all.

I've labelled all my relative's clothes with a laundry pen on the item's label - they still go missing and she ends up wearing dishevelled, old clothes that don't even fit her! When I retrieve her own clothes, the laundry pen is still totally visible! The last time I went through her things again, I took a huge box of clothes back to the laundry as they weren't hers. I once saw another resident wearing my relative's best blouse - not her fault of course but it really irritates me. All of her new M&S nighties (six of them) have disappeared and the care home asked me to provide some for her as she didn't have any! I'm on a mission this week to track them down! The care staff are wonderful but the laundry staff are a PITA!

From past experience of a dementia unit... dementia patients wonder, be that in and out of others rooms, picking up items and moving them. As a carer it is impossible to have eyes on everyone all of the time.
Multiple managers over a short period of time indicates issues in itself....are these managers leaving or are they being managed out.
I would 100% move.

I agree, on average the best care homes that I go into are £8k per month not per week.

Some care homes are contemptible. There is one near to me which is always asking for free entertainers, raffle prizes and toiletry donations etc. it's outrageous given that it's privately run for profit and the residents are paying thousands per month.
The owner flies in once a year in his helicopter to open their summer fate. Couldn't make it up really.

I would move him, DM has dementia and only pays £4,000 a month. We moved her from a failing care home very successfully, she's thriving where she is now.

Perhaps worth looking at a care annuity for your brother.
My Mums fees are completely covered by her annuity, pensions and Attendance Allowance.

Her capital remains untouched.

I'd say this is accurate for most care homes for older people who are in residential or nurising, with or without dementia care, care homes.
The ones that charge the very high end (highest near us is £1000k a week) are funded by a combination of adult social care and health funding as part of a long term care package) are for people of any age (over 18) who might otherwise remain in MH hospital settings indefinitely.

Sorry to hear you have a bad experience with laundry staff, not all of them are PITA.
But I know from where are you coming from and it's draining.
I do some shift in the laundry and I m trying my best to wash, dry and deliver clothes to the right owners.
But Some of my colleagues are useless unfortunately when it comes to sorting the clothes out.
For example there are 3 gents with the same first name, but clothes for them are constantly mix up, and when I m on shift relatives are always complaining to me about missing clothes or wrong clothes etc argh

It is such a hard choice.

FIL is in an expensive care home £2K per week. It has a cinema, a coffee, lounge, lots of activities (gardening, crafts, keep-fit) and trips out. FIL has dementia, and after 2 years, no longer benefits from any of these extras. And yes, his very well labelled clothes go missing. But also he wears someone else's slipper and had a random photo frame in his room of a family that isn't his! [goodness isn't all this a bit depressing for the plight of our long living elderly]

However, on the other side, in the care home there is meticulous attention to hygeine. There is never a smell of piss (there was once when someone was unexpectedly 'misbehaving' but sorted as soon as they realised). When MIL was there too and was in her last few days, the attention they gave to avoiding bedsores was first class.

It's impossible to tell how moving him might impact. In the 1980/90s I worked in the NHS when we still had wards for 'continuing care of the elderly'. Sometimes there were refurbishments or relocations where several wards of frail elderly people had to be moved somewhere else. It seemed on average that about 20% were adversely affected to the exent that their very old age lives ended. Woud they have ended anyway? no-one knows. But always after a relocation and move, there were more beds available than previously.

I m in SW, nursing home where I work, mainly dedicated for dementia residents charges from £1500 per week but those are small rooms in the older section of the building, on the new side where the rooms are bigger with ensuite they charging over £2200 per week

I'm so sorry if it sounded like I meant all laundry staff - there will always be bad apples who make it difficult for everyone else. I imagine it's very tricky when you have people with the same name! In my relative's case, I've used her full name and there's nobody else with that name. On the bright side, my relative doesn't give two hoots whose clothes she's wearing - it's me who gets wound up about it!