Kids noise vs neighbours: AIBU to think that there is so much you can do when you have young children?

[karpouzi]

We have three kids, all under the age of four, and live in a period maisonette spread over the first and loft floor. Currently, our entire family sleeps in the loft. The eldest two share a bedroom, while the baby is still in our room. On the first floor, we have the kitchen and living area, as well as a double room, which is currently set up as a playroom. We’ve always had a strict rule that our kids are not allowed on the first floor before 8 a.m., unless they’re having breakfast in the kitchen.
However, our downstairs neighbor has been repeatedly complaining about the noise, especially on weekends, saying that it’s disturbing her sleep. She sends us long messages almost every week. We’ve explained that we have a double rug in the playroom, and that the kids are not allowed in that room before 8 a.m., even though they wake up around 6:30 a.m. We also arrange swimming lessons to be at 9am in the weekend so the kids are out of the house. Unfortunately, this is all we can do to minimize the noise. Now, we face a new challenge: the baby will soon need his own room. Our plan is to move him into the boys' room in the loft, which is fairly small. We also plan to get new beds for the eldest two and convert the playroom into a bedroom where the boys will also have space for their toys. The boys typically wake up between 6:30 and 7 a.m., and with this new setup, they will need to stay in their bedroom in the mornings. I’m really concerned that the complaints from our neighbor will escalate. What do other people do in situations like this? I feel I m getting fed and I will start ignoring her messages.

Note: When we renovated our kitchen we did add floor noise insulation but we don’t have the money to do any further renovations at this stage.

Investing in carpets will make an enormous amount of difference. I know it's expensive but hardwood floors amplify sound in a way that you just cannot imagine unless you've lived underneath someone with them.

Have you checked that your lease allows this?

She needs to move into a detached house

You really need proper carpets with good underlay. Nothing else will come close.

I assume flat is leasehold or share of freehold? Most flats in old buildings have a term in the lease which say you must have carpets on upper floors. Worth checking if you are in breach. If there is no term you are in the clear!

I disagree. Carpeted floors don't age well at all and are hell to clean with young children. Not to mention the cost of getting it put down. Carpets are not meant to be noise insulation, that should be done within the floor itself.

I wouldn't want a carpeted floor with kids who will inevitably spill stuff at some point, and potentially have accidents while learning to use the potty.

Getting a couple of mats to put down on the floor would be reasonable, but OP may well have already done that.

I think OP should do what can reasonably done to limit the noise (which it seems she has) and engage minimally beyond that. There are reasonable and unreasonable expectations on the neighbour's part and OP only has a moral obligation to the former, not to the latter.

Jesus Christ, it sounds like the kids are barely even there, and when they are there they already have rules in place to minimise noise and you plan your activities around the neighbour already! If it's literally just the kids playing in their play room she can hear, I honestly don't think it's unreasonable noise tbh - they are living in their own home doing normal things kids do. I can hear mine stomping about when they play upstairs and there's not a lot I can do about it.

I would honestly have a conversation with them about all the things you already do, how that is over and above (I imagine) what many would do. It's not like it's loud parties or banging all hours of the day. You need to be able to live in your own house and some noise is to be expected. You can't tell your children not to play?!

I think your neighbour needs to adjust their expectations, and also come up with some solutions of their own in addition to the things you are already doing. Soundproofing their own apartment maybe? Plan to be out when the kids are playing? Those are the sorts of things you're doing to try appease them, and I'll bet anything she will not consider those things herself.

I think the neighbour is being unreasonable.

As someone who works nights and has loud kids living next door, the other things you mention either don't affect me or stopped after I bought an anti-barking device. it's just the kids. They have wooden floors and my (concrete) table literally shakes from whatever it is they do, no idea what it is but it sounds like they're throwing themselves against our wall or running around the house with shoes on.

OP, what noise is it the kids are making? Is it because they're thundering around for hours or because they're yelling or scream crying or playing with loud toys or what? Have you gone to your neighbours and listened to see if it's really bad or being exaggerated?

You really need decent carpets. It's unfair to have wooden floors with little kids.

I'd be really really pissed of to be woken at 8 any day of the week but especially at the weekend

We have the freehold and downstairs they are leaseholders. No i haven’t checked cause the house was like that when we bought it.

Worth checking. I lived in the middle floor of a a 3 storey Edwardian conversion and there was definitely a term about carpets. We moved in and there weren’t any and we didn’t put them in! Thankfully neighbours below didn’t complain about my toddler

They are making normal kids noise. They are not screaming 24/7 but as siblings they do argue. The baby is like it doesn't exist. Never cries. They are at home during the day only in the weekends not weekdays

This is usually true if all properties fall under one leasehold. I had this with 4 flats under one leasehold. I wanted to get rid of carpets and put down insulated hardwood but could not under terms of leasehold. If yours is a freehold then that would make sense it wouldn’t apply

This is not your problem. When you buy ground floor this is an issue. I’ve been there, done that and you are already being very considerate.

Have you children ?? Be stricter / face punishment / consequences for their actions?? Hardly the children’s fault they live in a building with poor insulation between floors and sounds like their parents to do best to minimise noise.

I also think that you should install thick underlay and carpet. I'm sure you would if your downstairs neighbour decided to learn a musical instrument and practice for a couple of hours every evening, particularly around the children's bedtime.

She can swap with me and live below my crack smoking, music playing, screaming argument, asbo, 39p energy drink neighbours if she wants to? Next to them there is the single dad that enjoys a bag and fight on a Friday evening, and right next door to me is the young girl who's 3yo son is on a child protection order after she got drunk and walked out on him in the middle of the night.

You sound like lovely considerate neighbours op and I'd give my right arm to live next to people like you. It could be so much worse!

There's nothing to stop you and your husband from using the bunk beds for a couple of years, is there?

I am not saying the neighbour is reasonable, who knows? But dismissing suggestions out of hand isn't reasonable either. As a pp said, sometimes need to do things you don't want to do.

Well I agree with the fact she really can’t do anything about it except move if she’s that sick of the noise of three young children.

Living in a similar age house it probably is quite loud but also probably isn’t due to anyone being particularly noisy. Anyone going up/downstairs in ours or just moving around putting stuff away sounds loud downstairs.

I think you have done all you can. You need to be able to move around as you want. I’d not be keeping my kids out of their play room before 8am. This isn’t your fault, these houses are not suitable as flats and should never have been converted without some decent soundproofing.

You obviously need to get carpets fitted, that's an obvious and easy step that will make a big difference.

In terms of rooms, why not move the baby downstairs and let the older ones keep their bedroom or have all three sleeping in the downstairs room and use one of the upstairs rooms as a playroom.

The noise is preventable then. Why don't you carpet?

A couple sleeping in bunk beds when there's enough space for everyone to have appropriate sleeping arrangements? are you on crack 😂
You don't change your entire home life cause of a whiney neighbour doesn't understand how flats work

Or OP could just carpet the flat to prevent the noise!