Kids noise vs neighbours: AIBU to think that there is so much you can do when you have young children?

[karpouzi]

We have three kids, all under the age of four, and live in a period maisonette spread over the first and loft floor. Currently, our entire family sleeps in the loft. The eldest two share a bedroom, while the baby is still in our room. On the first floor, we have the kitchen and living area, as well as a double room, which is currently set up as a playroom. We’ve always had a strict rule that our kids are not allowed on the first floor before 8 a.m., unless they’re having breakfast in the kitchen.
However, our downstairs neighbor has been repeatedly complaining about the noise, especially on weekends, saying that it’s disturbing her sleep. She sends us long messages almost every week. We’ve explained that we have a double rug in the playroom, and that the kids are not allowed in that room before 8 a.m., even though they wake up around 6:30 a.m. We also arrange swimming lessons to be at 9am in the weekend so the kids are out of the house. Unfortunately, this is all we can do to minimize the noise. Now, we face a new challenge: the baby will soon need his own room. Our plan is to move him into the boys' room in the loft, which is fairly small. We also plan to get new beds for the eldest two and convert the playroom into a bedroom where the boys will also have space for their toys. The boys typically wake up between 6:30 and 7 a.m., and with this new setup, they will need to stay in their bedroom in the mornings. I’m really concerned that the complaints from our neighbor will escalate. What do other people do in situations like this? I feel I m getting fed and I will start ignoring her messages.

Note: When we renovated our kitchen we did add floor noise insulation but we don’t have the money to do any further renovations at this stage.

You definitely need carpets if you don't already have them (not just rugs), and ideally some noise insulation. As you're the noisy ones you should pay for that as a goodwill gesture.

Flats are not ideal set ups for young children, and I do feel for your neighbour. I sympathise that it's hard to stop children making noise, but I would find it hell to have to listen to 3 toddlers at 8am on a Saturday morning.

Really if you have 3 kids, you need a house, not a maisonette.

You absolutely need carpets down in all those rooms.

people suggesting you and your partner sleep in bunk beds is ridiculous

The downstairs neighbour must have realised before she moved in that it was a downstairs flat and that whoever was living above her, would cause noise that should would hear, weather that be children, people with a hearing issue so TV loud, people who like to entertain, play a musical instrument etc.

So, at least this one, they should grow out of it.

OP, you sound very reasonable.

Yes and no. We became and are still actually good friends with them.

I don’t think you’re under any obligation to do anything op but if it were me I’d get a quote for having the whole place carpeted and then take a view on whether that money was worth removing the anxiety of dealings with the neighbour. For me it probably would be as you can’t really put a price on peace of mind. Also I grew up with hard floors and never carpets but we recently had our upstairs carpeted and I’m so surprised how much better I like it. So much softer and more homely.

Definitely. She was hardly likely to say that it sounds like someone's tapdancing overheard from 8am or whatever.

When I lived in London, every single flat I lived in sounded like the upstairs neighbour was stomping on the floor with hobnailed boots. I could hear them stirring a cup of tea in the kitchen above me in the last flat I lived in. Soundproofing is notoriously crap, particularly in period conversions. I do think people need to be reasonable about their expectations around noise.

I agree people should be reasonable about their expectations around noise.

But also, people who make a lot of noise (even if they can't help it, i.e. with kids), should be reasonable about doing everything they can to minimise it. Carpeting and soundproofing, and keeping the children quiet in the early morning and late evening, are the least you can do. If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't be living in a flat.

Both sides have a point and it's not fair to dismiss the neighbour as being unreasonable. 3 kids running around above you at 8am is not a pleasant thing to have to deal with every day.

Given that the OP is studiously avoiding answering any questions about wooden floors and carpets, that will be a big yes to the floors are wooden and a big no to being willing to put carpets down. With 3 small children and someone living below, this is beyond selfish.

Have I missed the answer to this question too? I can’t see it anywhere and it makes a MASSIVE difference to the responses.

The avoidance of this question makes me think you do not have carpet.

If no carpet, then the answer is a carpet.

if you already have carpets, then it sounds like you are doing as much as you reasonably can.

I am in a downstairs flat with a 6 yr old
above who sounds like an elephant and cannot walk quietly. But, there is only 1 child (so no arguing) and they have carpets, and the noise isn’t (too) early in the morning or late at night. At night I can just hear normal adult footsteps rather than, the thundering of a child running around.

If they drop something on their (laminate) kitchen floor though, it is REALLY loud and clattery, and it is horrid.

Double rug doesn’t make a different if there’s even an inch of Victorian floorboard showing around the edge with the notorious gaps.

you need to prioritise putting down proper soundproofing and a finished floor on top. It’s your responsibility

Well more fool her for not doing her research properly and just making assumptions. If she hates it that much she can sell up and move.
Don't put yourself out of pocket. If she complains again just ask her if she is willing to pay for you to have the place carpet and if not then she can shut the fuck up with her moaning. You were there first. Of course kids are noisy.
It's like when people move near a park then complain about the noise of kids playing. Idiots.

I do agree and I think wooden flooring in flats should really be restricted only to ground floor flats. Upper floors need carpeting to provide at least a baseline of soundproofing for the floors below. Not fashionable, maybe, but it does make life more bearable for the downstairs occupants.

Anyone who has got to the age where they're old enough to buy and be responsible for any kind of property is hopefully not stupid enough to believe that three young children don't generate any noise.

Even if the imagined situation that you're supposing did happen. Lots of things could have been said or not said by the vendor, it doesn't take away from the fact that you'd be nuts to buy a flat under a family of five, even if they were sold to you as some kind of magical mythical noiseless children, (let's pretend that did happen) and expect not to hear them.

Then expect them to move out? That's not how it works in the real world unfortunately for anyone who bought a ground floor flat and hoped for the best but didn't get it.

what does behave quietly mean? It seems any movement is being heard. You can’t tell children why can’t play and talk in their own home. That is completely unreasonable. There is no evidence the children are playing baseball or screaming at the top of their voice. The children are just walking about as kids do.

I used to live in a flat in an old house. below a couple. No kids. I could hear their TV and them walking about. I never complained as I was in a flat, in an old house! What did I expect?!

the only mitigating solution is thick carpets around the whole place. They do make a difference but won’t solve entirely.

I’d consider carpeting if you have hard floors, it will make a big difference. But that’s it, otherwise you are being v considerate. “Sorry neighbour, we’ve made reasonable adjustments but cannot guarantee silence, as you should appreciate when you purchase a property with neighbours in close proximity now quit moaning at the kids for existing “

I think it's quite telling that the previous people didn't have a problem. I expect good manners from my kids, but I wouldn't be cross with them for what you describe. It's their home. I do have sympathy for your neighbour, but it doesn't sound like you're being unreasonable.

Do you have carpets?!?!

This isn't actually possible for most people, though. Under 55s can't live in 55+ communities (obviously) (and even if they could, many 55+ year olds have visiting grandchildren) and there aren't usually blocks of just studio flats, it's normally studios mixed with 1-3 beds (and even if such a block existed, what if you want more out of life than to live in a one-room apartment?).

I looked around to try and find somewhere I could move to that wouldn't allow families and it doesn't exist. I'd love it if residential areas could be zoned according to people who love to make noise and those who need quiet, but that's not how the world works. Hence why everyone needs to be tolerant and considerate, both.

Carpet the floors!

You children have a right to live and be children. It doesn't sound like they are disruptive just playing and being kids so punishing them and banishing them from the house is not ok. They should not foot the burden that somebody bought a house underneath a family and wants complete silence, Unfortunately noise is part of having upstairs neighbours. To be curtious you could ask to listen to the noise when the kids are playing from her house so you can pin point it, put foam mats down to dampen the noise, get her some ear plugs for Christmas 😂

I personally think your neighbour is being unreasonable. If they want maximum peace they need to pay for less neighbours!

your children deserve to feel safe and happy in their home. I’d carpet the downstairs and put a thick underlay on. But apart from that I’d tell the neighbour to put their own sound proofing in their ceiling. That you’ve done everything reasonably practicable and that your family are just living their life.

Within the “the law” … you are going above and beyond. There is no “right” to quiet.

Your neighbor can use earplugs, listen to white noise, run a fan or just learn to find sounds of life to be restful.

You have done what you can, you explained it.

Be prepared for them to put together a dossier for the council including any written correspondence and recordings of “noise.” So be a good idea for you to have your own notes summarizing your accommodations which are likely not even required. I doubt council is going to tell you to put in new floors etc …. There are thousands in same situation.

At this point, it’s a them problem. You have done what you can. You should keep info on anything they do that is threatening or harassing to you or your children.

Now you need to smile and be friendly to this person til they move out or die from lack of “quiet”.

They could have much worse neighbors.

Floorboards and a double rug

You are being unreasonable upstairs flat and just floorboards and a rug.

Can ypu carpet the whole downstairs and use noise insulating carpet underlay? Then basically tell the neighbour you have done all you can. I used to livee underneath an acolholic cellist. He would play his cello angrily for hours then stomp around and throw things in a drunken rage. I think you arr being as respectfulnas you can be and theres not really anything she or you can do to stop children making any noise at all.
You have changed your schedules to suit her, how about she changes her schedules too and goes out like you are doing.