Kids noise vs neighbours: AIBU to think that there is so much you can do when you have young children?

[karpouzi]

We have three kids, all under the age of four, and live in a period maisonette spread over the first and loft floor. Currently, our entire family sleeps in the loft. The eldest two share a bedroom, while the baby is still in our room. On the first floor, we have the kitchen and living area, as well as a double room, which is currently set up as a playroom. We’ve always had a strict rule that our kids are not allowed on the first floor before 8 a.m., unless they’re having breakfast in the kitchen.
However, our downstairs neighbor has been repeatedly complaining about the noise, especially on weekends, saying that it’s disturbing her sleep. She sends us long messages almost every week. We’ve explained that we have a double rug in the playroom, and that the kids are not allowed in that room before 8 a.m., even though they wake up around 6:30 a.m. We also arrange swimming lessons to be at 9am in the weekend so the kids are out of the house. Unfortunately, this is all we can do to minimize the noise. Now, we face a new challenge: the baby will soon need his own room. Our plan is to move him into the boys' room in the loft, which is fairly small. We also plan to get new beds for the eldest two and convert the playroom into a bedroom where the boys will also have space for their toys. The boys typically wake up between 6:30 and 7 a.m., and with this new setup, they will need to stay in their bedroom in the mornings. I’m really concerned that the complaints from our neighbor will escalate. What do other people do in situations like this? I feel I m getting fed and I will start ignoring her messages.

Note: When we renovated our kitchen we did add floor noise insulation but we don’t have the money to do any further renovations at this stage.

The trend for floor boards and a rug, as opposed to underlay, carpet, rug, has had a really negative impact on a great many neighbour relations

Too late now, but fully noise insulating the flat before another child might have been the way to go.
try carpets instead of rugs?

Most people would actively avoid moving into a property where they have been disputes with the neighbours. I know I would as it shows the neighbours have the potential to be awkward about things, people generally want to live in peace don't they?!

carpet the place at least

Reading all your posts I truly think you are doing enough. Some people are just really noise sensitive and not suited to living in a flat. My daughter is one of these people & complains about noise to my son & myself. We can have the tv in the bedroom next to hers on ridiculously low & she still complains. Complains about neighbours kids or dog playing in garden at 8 am because she wants a lie in. She is 24. I keep telling her she needs to live in a detached house alone! When she told me she was moving out to a flat I chuckled to myself. She has shelved that idea for now but the only thing that would make her happy is complete silence from me & her teenage brother & both sets of neighbours. Just explain to your neighbour you have done as much as is realistically possible to keep noise to a minimum & send her details of detached properties in the middle of no where.

6:30 on a weekend is super early. Have you tried Gro-clocks or similar? Need to teach the DC that when it's blue, it's still nighttime and they need to be quiet, and when it's yellow, they can get up. Even very young ones can understand that within a week or so.

And then you need to figure out what they can do quietly for the time between 6:30 and at least say 7:30-8am. Could be cartoons with headphones, an audio story, colouring, lots of things. Anything quiet.

Or... You teach them that when they wake up, they come up to your room straight away until you're ready for them to be downstairs and start the day.

Why would the neighbour even consider a council noise complaint? A family making normal levels of living their life noise during the day would go absolutely nowhere if they tried to complain..

Your kids are in nursery from 8am until 6.30pm?!?! So the kids don't spend hardly any time at home with their parents, and when they do they have to be quiet, and at weekends they're made to get out of the house as early as possible so as not to disturb the neighbours. I actually think I'd consider moving. And maybe moving to a cheaper area so you can reduce your hours and spend more time with them.

The question is whether it's 'normal levels'. If it's not, a complaint at any time of day can be upheld.

If they are in nursery from 8am, then how come they can't go downstairs before 8am. Do they have breakfast in their bedrooms? Or I suppose the nursery give them breakfast and dinner.

Personally I think living somewhere like this it’s give and take. When I was at uni my room shared a wall with next door’s playroom. From 6am I could hear everything. I’m autistic and sensitive to noise but actually hearing (mostly) happy children play made me so excited to have my own in the future. It wasn’t great when I was woken up close to exams or at other important times but we likely disturbed them at points too. For example, I didn’t drink but did love going bowling/to the cinema and for food so getting back at 10pm was not unusual. You could hear each other’s door shut so even being as quiet as possible they’ll probably have heard me. It’s just about balance

In what way is OP going out of her way? She has 3 kids and no carpet! If I was the downstairs neighbour I wouldn't be worrying about her stress levels if she was unreasonable enough not to have carpets, I'd be more worried about mine!

I agree kids shouldn't be punished for being kids but this is about an inconsiderate neighbour not bothering to do what they can to lessen the noise.

I think a carpet is a bare minimum requirement. I know the OP is careful otherwise but not having a carpet is not on.

Balance, yes. I decided to redress the balance when my neighbour couldn't help their excessive noise. I'd previously not allowed my son's band to practice in the shed. I started allowing that one day a week. And he must practice his individual instrument for half an hour at 7pm each night. Completely reasonable duration and activity. I also took out my ear plugs and listened to my radio during my lunch break without them (for up t0 40 minutes. The neighbours didn't like the new balance and are now really quiet. So they could help it when they had an incentive. I've put my ear plugs back in, but aren't going to stop my son's new routine. Before this, they'd never have even known if we were home if they didn't see us.

Sounds like you're not taking the Mickey. No going downstairs before 8am is reasonable.
People suggested you and your partner moving into bunk beds/living room is not reasonable at all!
Carpets will make a huge difference, once you can afford them.
Buying a ground floor flat with kids above is obviously going to be noisy.

It doesn’t sound like your home works for you OP, it’s not ideal as a family home if you have to make so many adaptations.

People move all the time to accommodate their family needs, can you consider this? Living in an unsuitable home must be very stressful for everyone including then neighbour.

It's odd how often people find solutions to previously impossible problems once they start to be inconvenienced, isn't it!

Sorry you need to put carpet down. Going right to the edge of the room and being tacked down makes a difference, also put the best underlay down as well, will make a difference

That's urban living unfortunately, she will have to get over it. They are 2 and 4, it's unreasonable to expect them to be silent in the mornings. We live in a terrace and sometimes the neighbours are noisy. We just put earplugs in if necessary and get on with it.

If your neighbour wants a very quiet house then she can take her £700k and move to a very nice house somewhere remote.

Next time she complains I would just tell her that the situation is that she lives underneath 2 very young children who wake up early and sometimes make noise, and nothing will be changing in the near future.

Tbh when you buy a ground floor flat you have to expect some noise, it is what it is. You've done what you can given financials etc with the double rug. The boys moving into that room is just life, you can get them quiet games to do in bed like sticker books, drawing etc. But at the end of the day it's your house and you shouldnt be put out, pp's suggesting you and your husband go into bunk beds is beyond ridiculous. If your neighbour wanted silence she should have bought somewhere else. With neighbours you have to expect there will be noise. She has no legal standing based on what you said re timings, just warn her that the boys are moving into that room and you'll do what you can to keep them quiet in the morning but at the end of the day they're kids who deserve to be free in their own home (within reason, which sounds like they are - as in they're not screaming stamping around 24/7).
Is what it is OP, all you can do is reply nicely to her messages and apologise if you need to, keep doing what you're doing but don't get too riled up or bothered by it.

How would she know they were inconsiderate enough to have hard floors in an upstairs flat?

I'd just be frank with her. You've done everything you can do and you won't be making anymore changes.

Unfortunately she chose (and If she bought a 700k flat it was a choice. It wasn't a case of having to live wherever she could afford). That comes with a reasonable expectation of noise. In fact she's bloody lucky all your children sleep through the night, if they woke up crying regularly there would still be nothing she could do about it.

I know that you don't want conflict but that's impossible at the minute. If you're blunt she will either hate you or accept it. But since your relationship now consists of her complaining, it doesn't really matter whether she takes it well.

It's obviously extremely inconsiderate to move two young children who get up at 6.30 am into an uncarpeted room directly above someone else's sleeping or living space.

I firmly disagree with everyone saying you should get cheap carpet. Not everyone likes carpet and you shouldn’t have to put them in to please your neighbour who was aware you had children when she bought the property move in! At best ask her to contribute to a rug. My son has a dust allergy and there is no way I would carpet my home for someone else! And then there’s off gassing to consider when you’re living with kids including a baby! She should have thought twice about buying a ground floor property when she knew kids lived upstairs! It’s not like you’re doing anything unreasonable and any noise you make it is just a result of you living your life! Don’t bow to this ridiculous pressure.

How about knocking ask asking them to run around upstairs and then going downstairs to see if the noise bothers her? If it did, don’t buy the flat! She’s either ridiculous or just plain stupid.