Modern life is rubbish?

[MeanMrMustardSeed]

I’m not been immune to this myself, so not pointing fingers. I just keep seeing the same things on here again and again, and I’m coming to the conclusion that Blur were on to something.

We saw the dream of 2 incomes, and bigger houses and newer cars, eating out and foreign holidays. Then because we were all doing it, houses got more expensive. Then we needed two cars as we had two jobs and lots of activities for the kids, but we couldn’t save up for them, or afford them, so we took out leases on them. In the good old days of low interest rates we bought bigger houses, and took out loans for extensions and spent the rest on a family holiday.

Now we have expensive lifestyles but less disposable income. We’re tied into paying off loans that seemed manageable 5 years ago, paying £100s for cars that just don’t seem to do it for us anymore as almost every other person has one anyway. But mostly we’re knackered from trying to manage it all.

Lots of us seem to dream of getting rid of 50% of our things, eating the same simple meals every week, saving slowly for house improvements and living with ‘okay’, and getting off the treadmill, or at least slowing it down. If modern life made us all happy, I could maybe accept it’s all fine, but that’s not the vibe I’m getting.

So is modern life rubbish, or have I messed up somewhere?

How do you think you'd feel if you managed to earn £70k pa and had the 4 bed detached with a garage, utility room, home office and kitchen extension? Would you still feel a failure when you hear of others who have 5 bed detached with double garages, who earn £100k pa? At what point would contentment kick in?

For perspective, I earn less than you and live in a smaller home, but I'm content. I realise my contentment comes from a combination of a naturally frugal nature, a hatred of rampant consumerism and a disinterest in comparing myself with others. I figure the women who do earn £70k pa probably have far more pressure at work than i do, and although my work isn't well paid it's rewarding and relatively stress-free.

As the saying goes, comparison is the thief of joy. You like your home and work. That is until you compare yourself with others. That's really sad 🙁

I read a book called The Year of Less by Cait Flanders and it really struck a chord or anyone is interested. (Only 79p on kindle at the moment but obvs better if you can get it from the library)

@MeanMrMustardSeed
I am sorry but you are wrong
Yes credit is over extended in our society but you have to look at the APR v benefit and make decisions constantly based on your financial situation
This is your responsibility

eg you are buying a car £20k
They offer you a finance deal
You see that if you take a no interest credit card out you can repay the car in the 24 months without interest
you do not take the finance deal
Society having a emphasis towards advertising new things to buy and credit does not force you to buy anything

There was once a point in our culture that to be in debt was a shameful thing
We should not go back to that but debt should not be normalized either.

If you could not afford it at the time you had the option not to buy it

@Breadcat24 I get that, and as I am numerate and interested in these things and have good impulse control, I’m fine. But as you say yourself, people have to ‘make decisions constantly based on your financial situation’. This is what’s often exhausting and overwhelming for people when money / credit / Klarna etc is on offer 24/7.

I don't think so. I love life and I think that's because I appreciate things that cost nothing. I love walking in nature. Hiking. Swimming in the sea. Costing up by the fire on a wet day.
Homemade soup with bread after a cold walk.
Reading with my babies under a blanket
Family movie night
Dog snuggles
I'm happy with a fun camping holiday.
But every few years we go on a big holiday.but can do that as I save on little things. I don't get my hair done or any beauty treatments. Budget the food shop. Don't buy coffee or snacks when out. Go on free days out instead of spending money. Sell old stuff on vinted etc. Etc
Also the "big" holidays to America are around the same as a package holiday as we shop around and organise ourselves.
I love life.
I'm glad I'm alive now. No threat of being bombed (where we are) no rations or cold. Work isn't too bad. Etc

Also comparison is the thief of joy. Enjoy what you have and be grateful. Think of how much better off you are than alot of other people and don't think of those with more. You can't keep up with the joneses.

We just sold the big house with the big garden that everyone admired, used the equity to buy a much smaller house without a big garden and paid off all our debts.

I think a lot of people are doing this - loads of people sell their house and go travelling or downsize loads. People are learning that big house, big car is nowhere as near as important as being happy.

It's better than being dead!!!

It’s not exhausting to say no. You just make it your default when it comes to credit:

Do you want a credit card - no
Would you like to use Klarna - no

Rarely, you may have to say yes because the thing you are buying is (1) genuinely needed (not just wanted) (2) the best option available and (3) genuinely beyond your means. But the default should be ‘No’.

In many ways life was a lot more rubbish for many people in the past. If you feel the need to keep up with the Joneses, with flash new cars, a bigger house, etc., and choose to live only just within, or beyond, your means, that is entirely your choice.

Keeping off social media might be a good idea, especially anything show-off/lifestyle related. As for ‘pressure’ to buy/spend/keep up, I’m fed up with reading about this. It’s not compulsory to give in to such ‘pressure’ - plenty of people manage quite well without giving in to it.

I think access to finance and social media has a lot to answer for and I worry about the strain both puts on people financially.

We're a £140K joint income household (no kids) and both put £1800pm into the "bills account" which is mortgage, utilities, internet etc. We pay about £500 a month for both cars that are fairly new and one is paid off shortly. We don't get takeaways, 95% are from scratch but go out for day drinks every 6 weeks or so (say £100-150 spend) and try to go out for Sunday lunch each week as we're so sick of cooking (£40 ish spend). We like nice holidays and do have a few very nice ones a year, but nothing hugely flashy compared to others and nothing others couldn't afford. (In May we're going to IKOS for example - not unreachable for many!) Our lifestyle is not outside of the reach of many and not "flashy" or appearing expensive as others I know on less than half my salary.

I think the key issue now is that credit/klarna means everyone can buy everything and that's an issue for those on less than me as it's building a lifestyle without the financial backing should circumstances change. I don't particularly buy new clothes often (F&F at Tesco is actually great!), don't get my nails done (or eyelashes or brows or facials etc) and I'm lucky to not have to dye my hair yet so I get simple trims every 8-10 weeks for say £50. A lot of women I know get fresh nails every few weeks, have an expensive hairdresser, lash extensions, regular beauty apps, a designer bag, designer perfume, have Dyson air wraps, drive a nice new-ish little car (monthly payments) and go on quite flashy/expensive holidays. Maybe they compromise elsewhere such as not eating as many whole foods as much as I do and therefore have a smaller food bill, BUT you'd not know much difference on the face of it between me on £70K and a friend on £30K when we go out for lunch - her handbag is probably more expensive than mine and she'll order a more expensive dish! The only tell tale (which isn't on social media) would be our house and savings value and even then I have friends who got help from family to buy houses in their 20s (£20K+ sums) and their weddings entirely paid for so they still manage to have decent savings. So a lot of it perhaps when I think is both finance AND family support?

Houses built on sand rather than stone perhaps but worth considering when you compare your lifestyle to others - hopefully yours is a solid foundation and you can cut away what you don't need?

Re cars: I hate them, basically (smelly, dangerous, ugly, divisive), but I do agree that if you need one, make sure it’s comfortable and reliable.

Years ago I tried to revolutionise financial education in this country (yeah, I was young and stoopid!). The schools and universities I approached to get on board were very resistant: ‘we have learning materials free from NatWest, we don’t need you!’ Ever heard of setting rabbits to guard lettuces????

I really can't relate to paying more for a car not being worth it because everyone has a nice one now??

That bizarre keeping up with the joneses that's never been part of my life.

I was doing well before the 07 financial crisis and have never recovered.

But it's not due to buying cars holidays or houses.

This was the ideal in the 1980s but in reality, it makes little difference whether or not men want to take over the domestic sphere (and let's face it, most of them don't particularly) when the logistics don't allow for it. Anecdotally, in my circle of friends, both partners are working and/or commuting from 8.30am and they don't get back until at least 6pm - often more like 7pm - 8pm for the higher earner - and those are the lucky families that aren't dealing with shift work or other complicating factors. They barely see their kids and are simply forced to work to service housing costs with very little help, if any, from parents or extended family. Childcare is extortionate and mostly of awful quality - again, the fees in our local nurseries seem to be passed on largely to landlords. And worst of all there's now this disingenuous expectation that women should be equal to men in all the masculine ways eg. we're expected to earn the same and be able to support ourselves and our kids if our partner leaves but there's barely any appreciation, let alone adequate compensation for the ways in which we are not equal to men, namely the huge contribution of carrying, birthing and being responsible for the emotional development of children. And if the guy does leave, the courts won't even make him pay for his own kids. Modern life is truly rubbish for a lot of women at the moment - in many ways worse than thirty years ago. There should be far more appreciation and compensation for what we do outside the conventional workforce and work needs to be adapted to family life (the birth rate will continue to plummet if it doesn't). But it won't happen as long as we keep celebrating the idea that doing it all for half the money is some kind of feminist win in itself.

I could have written this, so empathise! We are in an Owned (mortgaged) 3 bed semi with garden, driveway, etc but no utility room & only one loo. Could do with updating a bit! We have a decent car but it's 14 years old, I'm in a secure admin job but feel deflated some days seeing what other people have. I try not to compare but it's hard. But, we've no debt except a mortgage and have lots to be thankful for.

No, you are absolutely 💯 correct! I have been saying the same thing myself for the last 2/3 years. I think this is also why people have become so unhappy miserable anxious depressed etc. I paid off the £ I had on c/cards and then cancelled them, I save up if I need to make a large purchase now. If I can’t afford it I don’t buy it. Got rid of car on PCP too. Im living within my means and I feel happier leading a simpler life, no debt and no stressy miserable job anymore either

I don't know anyone who lives like that. Sounds like you have a problem with compulsive spending.

We saw the dream of 2 incomes, and bigger houses and newer cars, eating out and foreign holidays. Then because we were all doing it, houses got more expensive. Then we needed two cars as we had two jobs and lots of activities for the kids

You may have swallowed the "dream", but not all of us did. You made these choices freely. The hamster wheel of consumption leads nowhere, and many of us knew that.
Overspending is visible, bawdy and brash, so much more noticable than those of us choosing simple,gentle lives.
Consumption does not ease our hunger for healing, it can distract us from our pain and anxieties for a while, but will always remain counterfeit soul food.

Where does this “pressure” to buy above your means come from? It’s a self imposed pressure and used to avoid taking responsibility for the choices you’ve made (oh but society made me do it!). It’s something many people need to work on within themselves. People that know their own mind and can find worth beyond material possessions are happier and more peaceful.
Get off social media. Comparison is the thief of joy and all that. Society can’t make you do anything.

The debt you build up won’t just go away either. When you die your kids will be left to deal with it. Do you really want that to happen just so you could have a fancy car like Astrid and Joseph two streets over?

Completely agree.

It’s the choices you make isn’t it?

We are 2 parents working full time with an 8 year old. We go abroad most years but we book way in advance and pay off bits of this as and when, we don’t have credit cards.

Both of our cars are owned outright but are 10/11 years old.

Home improvements happen when we have the money saved up, otherwise they don’t happen.

Our house isn’t Instagram perfect but it’s clean and maintained.

When you step off the merry go round of consumerism ( if you were ever there) then the distance brings clarity, we can have an objective view of social "pressures"
A lot of the "stuff" many buy is wealth signalling. A fancy car, expensive clothes, footwear or handbags. Homes in posh neighbourhoods, fancy holidays we can't afford.
It seems to me that all this posturing is a search for external validation. We want people to think we are happy, affluent, have life all worked out.
But despite all the consumer goods our souls are left parched, we are crying inside, needing to be told we are good enough.

It is liberating to dismiss social expectations, and not care if people think we are scruffy/poor/lazy.
I care not a jot what others think of my life choices.
Paring back to simplicity and only buying things that we need or to nurture ourselves is the ultimate in soft living.

The ability to sleep at night is priceless; consumerism often robs people of that very basic need.

Absolutely.

It feels very safe knowing I have contingency. With low outgoings and a large buffer no matter what happens all will be OK.