Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

And that it makes no difference at all in assessing the risk associated with being ‘a male person’ for the purposes of making robust safeguarding decisions.

No one wants to answer what the difference is between a male having their penis and testes removed due to injury or disease and one electing to do so for gender identity.

This thread has really shown that. So many posters stating enough of being told that they have to accept someone else’s belief that doesn’t reflect material reality.

And since this NHS Fife tribunal case, so many people are now quite well informed in their posts. Have you noticed also there has been a real lack of those usual posters who come to thread and complain that this thread is ‘just more of the same and that no one wants these threads in AIBU’?

100% agree, but it does make a difference in how this person is perceived.

Going to the lengths of having your penis removed indicates serious discomfort with their sex - no one would do that lightly. So there's sympathy for that, which I understand.

That sympathy shouldn't translate into access to women's spaces - totally agree. But I see how it frames everything differently.

Whereas the man who declares himself a woman while keeping his tackle is more obviously just a predatory chancer.

H112 · Today 10:13

Transwomen are women. They don't effect my daily life as a woman...

I thought that graduates of medical schools would have had a better facility with the English language. You've used "effect" instead of "affect" several times, now.

*dapsnotplimsolls · Today 12:47

I think there are still far too many people who don't realise that the percentage of TW who've had their penis removed is minuscule.*

There was a study completed (I wish I could refind the study) where chemical castration was routinely used with male offenders who were guilty of sexual violence.

The results showed that, although those male offenders could no longer rape, they comitted even more sexual offences, and caused even more physical damage (through using their hands and other objects to penetrate their victims mostly female), than those sex offenders who were not chemically castrated.

Showing 1. It's not just about sex, but also power and 2. The sexual violence was expressed in a different way.

Perhaps NHS should record (1) biological sex, (2) acquired / legal sex if GRC in place and (3) preferred gender

That way, they would know how someone wishes to be addressed, and what treatment to offer

Otherwise, seems risky if they might eg not invite transman for smear tests, on basis GP records show that person to be a man / male

Have you noticed also there has been a real lack of those usual posters who come to thread and complain that this thread is ‘just more of the same and that no one wants these threads in AIBU’?

I think it makes a difference that the thread was started by a genderist who presumably would have been mortally offended if the thread was moved to FWR.

I agree that people extend sympathy to one and not the other.

It is remarkable though to see the lengths that people will go to on the basis of that sympathy. Yet, when they are asked directly what the difference is, they cannot articulate it so it seems.

The reality is clear to me that there should be absolutely no requirement for any male person to go through a brutal surgery (or female person to go through an even more brutal surgery) to in any way 'earn' the right of access to somewhere that they should be excluded, even if that is just by social contract. Yet, this position that if they have 'shown commitment to their identity' they should be accepted, puts these people into the position of feeling that they have to do this to be accepted.

It is noticeable that when people are asked to state the difference between the two groups of male people who have had the exact same surgery, they don't seem to be able to give a plausible answer.

Yep.

And also, for those rare transwomen who do have genital surgery, the prostate is rarely removed (as it can lead to incontinence).

Therefore, a transwoman currently with F on their NHS record, may be at significant risk, if their need for prostate examinations and PSA testing is ignored.

As an aside, compare this to the evidence that at least 95% of transmen will end up incontinent after wrong sex hormones (testosterone).

Yes. Also. When a woman calls herself a ‘cisgender woman’, it is clear there are biases afoot.

I remember reading that study.

There is an over reliance on people thinking that the risk is about use of the penis and that removing testes will also decrease that 'risk'. But then you have to consider also that male people need to have a certain minimum of testosterone to stay physically healthy long term. And we know that testosterone reduction doesn't reduce the physical advantages that those male people have.

Just their grip strength and punch power remains so much higher and barely skims the maximum grip strength of female people if I remember correctly. Meaning that they can keep holding onto someone whereas a female person has less chance of keeping hold of someone they are attacking. And a female person's punch is not going to have the same power to overpower a victim.

Plus, lots of people like to ignore that particular castration paraphilia that some male people have. I mean, they are trying to normalise that paraphilia along with all the others. To some male people, being castrated is a sexual fetish.

Without becoming the 'genital inspectors' genderists accuse us of being there is no way to tell if a particular trans identified person has had full 'reassignment' surgery or not so even if people want to make a case for post-op males to access women only spaces it really is unworkable. Even if there was a system in place that somehow allowed post op men in but no others (some sort of fanny operated scanner?) it doesn't prevent women from being 'triggered' by the presence of someone with male biological advantage in an intimate female space. Male voice, male gait, male build may all remain regardless of surgery and can be terrifying to some women. As ever it comes back to why is it OK to traumatise some women so as not to upset a tiny minority of men?

Indeed.

There are so many issues.

And, of course, the lazy 'you can't police it so why bother'.

Are you sure about that?

What about these ones who, by their own admission, get sexually aroused when wearing clothing intended for women?

Surely getting an erect penis as a consequence of cross-dressing would preclude one from being a woman?

@H112 'Transwomen' are males with penis and testicles. If you have a cock and balls, how are you a woman? If a male with penis and testicles are in a female only safe single sex space, where many of us women and girls are rape survivors, it affects us.

Its clear you don't actually know what a 'transwoman' is.

If you were in med school, you'd know a male with a cock and balls is not any type of woman, @H112 .

A MALE with a COCK AND NUT SACK in a safe FEMALE ONLY space affects all women and girls, especially rape survivors. Cast aside your brainwashing and science denialism and use critical thinking.

You realise 'gender' is a misogynistic man-made social construct that isn't tangible and doesn't exist... right? Only sex is real and exists. And female only intimate safe single SEX spaces are based on....SEX. Not a 'gender' in some male's head.

Why do you care about being a women or what it means be a woman though??

Spoken like a male supremacist. Any feminist will tell you why it counts to be a woman and what it means to be a woman - a member of the oppressed sex class. You may as well ask Why do you care about being black or what it means be black though??

Do you know what, OP? My “lived experience “ as a woman in her 50s adds up to multiple sexual assaults (including rape), kerb crawling, being followed home off public transport, being groped a million fucking times. Guys you think you know turning out to be predatory. Honestly too many to count. And I am a very average person. You mentioned gaslighting, I am so sorry to tell you that it is you who is living in a delusion. Your massive diatribe is both cringe and utter bs.

being gender critical is a badge of honour, it literally means understanding and accepting reality.x
x

You do realise that 97% (at least with transwomen) don't have any surgery, right? So they do absolutely nothing but claim they are a woman because.... they feel like it (or, rather, get aroused by dressing as women), @Apennyforapound .

Except in sports, prisons, changing rooms, DV shelters, women's awards (best actress anyone?) if we can't define women we can't protect women's rights, recognise women's achievements or create any single sex spaces.

So in one sentence what is a woman if you think some men are then you are clearly rejecting the adult human female definition so we need new definition. Please let us know what it is.

👏

He/she (I don't know which, biologically or gender woo) is probably off on a TRA forum complaining that we're subjecting them to literal violence.