Scared of what labour will do

[Wantachangefor2024]

Is anyone else terrified of what labour will enforce. The tax on farmers. Will they means test pip? Will they tax state pension more? What else will they do and where will it all end. They ruthlessly without no care took away the winter fuel allowance. Means testing and taxing state pension would massively impact my family

A month ago I might have agreed with you. I suspect that four years of watching the US car crash unfold will have the opposite effect. It will be interesting to see what happens in Germany tomorrow.

I don't doubt that there will be a majority for the right, the question for me is how the vote on the right is split. This made me go to the Electoral Calculus website, they have this current prediction, if the tories get a lot of 'their' seats back and reform take the places that could never vote tory but are typically white working class then maybe we swing right. But they can also cancel each other out and let labour hang on in some seats. They currently predict a Reform Tory coalition.

Polling now is irrelevant. There’s another four years or so until we have another election. That’s an eternity in politics.

No they aren't. There's the small matter of National Insurance that they don't pay because the government still pretends that it's a contributory system.

The election is three years away, with campaigning starting in two. This time can be used wisely for other parties to really rebuild and prepare.
We can only hope Labour don’t completely ruin the country in the meantime. I am expecting a massive clampdown on welfare regardless of party.

At least four years. Our electoral cycle is five years. Labour can’t ruin the country, the Tories have already done that.

They are an absolute shit show. As predicted and now confirmed.

Ok so what you are saying is that the people trying to cross by small boats are not entitled to be here. That's fine. In which case I stand by what I am saying. They are not entitled to be here. Our country is entitled to protect our borders. So if they want to be daft enough to get into a small boat and potentially drown themselves then that is up to them. They are adults - the can choose to do what they want. The same way we can choose to defend our borders and refuse them access. We are not making them drown. They are doing that all by themselves.

I mean if I went to a country where British People are unwanted (and the recent news story about the couple arrested in Iran shows there are plenty places we are not wanted) I'd likely end up in Jail or worse. So i don't do it because I know the consequences and I don't want to end up arrested. I know I am not wanted there.

If we stop picking them up and letting them in, they will stop coming. It's just common sense. The rules we have is to protect our own citizens no? Or do they not matter. Our Island is bursting at the seams.

I think we have enough problems of our own at the moment don't you think. Homelessness, lots of children in temporary one room places, mental health issues and no services, no access to gp's without a long wait and no ambulances no matter how serious your emergency. Inflation up and growth stalled. People in pain with their teeth because they can't afford a dentist. People using foodbanks because they can't afford food. These are all issues I care about far more than someone trying to sneak into our country without permission and being daft enough to potentially harm themselves.

Because farm land is part of our national food security and if farmers have to sell off chunks of their land in order to pay inheritance tax and that land ends up getting built on or used for something other than farming, then that can’t be a good thing.

I was listening to LBC on the radio yesterday and someone commented on how high the cost of fresh food is in the US (in part due to the 2023 farm bill). They have some examples such as bag of carrots costing $8 and a single steak $20. Conversely unhealthy junk food is relatively cheap and this is why a lot of Americans are obese. If our farmers are hammered financially then this affects all of us. We are already in the midst of a cost of living crisis.

Although the farmer owns the land he or she farms, it is the country’s farm land in a way because it’s what provides us with our food security and for that reason, and think the farming community needs to be supported and certain areas of land protected and designated only for farming purposes so we don’t end up losing it. We can’t just rely on imports for everything we need.

Really?

Reeves' last set of tax rises equate to roughly half of that and have had a huge economic impact (much of which is still to feed through) and your position is that a hole in tax revenues requiring more tax rises/ cuts double the size of the one's she made in October would not be "significant"?

And that is without considering the wider economic effect of losing these people who set up businesses and drive growth and employ others and therefore generated a lot more tax revenue than that indirectly.

Economically illiterate.

Really, last time I was in the states it didn’t seem that hard to buy reasonably priced healthy food nowhere near the prices you are quoting.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fresh-Whole-Carrots-1-lb-Bag/44391515

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beef-Choice-Angus-Sirloin-Tender-Steak-0-6-1-62-lb-Tray/930351681?classType=REGULAR&athbdg=L1200

And rising costs in the US aren’t due to farmers not being supported but Covid, natural weather disasters, disease, war in Ukraine, transportation costs( the country’s vast)…Comparing two very different countries is prettty pointless .

Farmers are supported a lot. Plenty of farmers don’t give a shit when it suits as regards selling land. Take a look at all the housing estates popping up across green fields. Farmers should be paying the same inheritance tax as everybody else.

If a couple stay together, their joint income is used for any benefit calculation. It seems absurd that the same doesn't apply when maintenance is paid. It penalises married couples.

Most aren't picked up, they land on the shore, so what would do to stop this?

I don't think you've thought this through.

All the issues you are concerned about have been on going and increasing for at least a decade, growth has been dire for many years, in Q4 last year, we were in recession! inflation at 11% in 2023.

I agree with this point. Regardless of my actual opinion, the gloating on here was pretty disgusting tbh.
Although I do find that there is a tendancy on MN for posters to rub their hands with glee at anything that attacks 'the rich' (ie anyone earning a bit more than you)

There was absolutely no gloating. There were however numerous threads posted in AIBU spouting rubbish. MN being a forum and AIBU an area where you ask if you’re being unreasonable and people reply, these tedious threads got replies. If you don’t want replies you don’t like don’t start countless threads.

Now on the subject of gloating cast your mind back to Brexit, Tory wins, any thread on benefits…..there you will find gloating.

Very true. But as pensioners, we aren’t eligible for Maternity or unemployment allowances which are based, like our state pensions, on NI contributions. And as we age, we have far fewer opportunities to increase our income, unlike people of working age.

Because I was a SAHM for a while in the 1970s, and then a low paid worker paying reduced NI contributions, (AKA Married Women’s stamp) my State Pension has been calculated to a little over £100 a week. Later in my working life I built up a small occupational pension which has saved taxpayers from having to fork out means tested benefits to us. We could have just spent the money, we never had much for luxuries, even with two wages.

The system is always going to be unfair to some of us, some of the time.

As I said before-thinking that putting VAT on private education is a good idea and had been a long time coming is NOT gloating.
There are, however unpleasant people on all sides of any debate, so there were probably a few "knock the boaters off the toffs" posts. As there were a few "feral underclass children" and "you can't expect me to throw my child to the wolves" posts. Both equally unpleasant and both best ignored.

Although I do find that there is a tendancy on MN for posters to rub their hands with glee at anything that attacks 'the rich' (ie anyone earning a bit more than you)

But some of the rhetoric on those threads were that people weren't rich they just prioritised education & worked harder. 🤔

Can you clarify what you actually mean by the grown-ups being in charge?
It's been used a lot on MN (mostly after the election when people seemed to think we were heading for some sort of utopia, not so much now).
I wondered how long it would be before that could be ticked off the bingo card. We've had Russian bots, Tory bots, grown-ups in charge, happy to pay extra tax, rich baby boomers and farmers and I voted Labour because I care so far - are there any more i have forgotten?

I worked 2yrs after retirement age and deferred my state (and only) pension and couldn't understand why NI was no longer being deducted each month - madness. I'd have been happy to continue paying it, I was used to paying it! Probably a drop in the ocean but the drops all make a difference. Pensioners still working should pay NI.

I don't know about the "Grown ups in charge etc" but Boris was a big kid, Truss was a maniac, as her behaviors since show... and Hunt made a childish attempt to win votes by cutting NI by 4%, without any plan on how to pay for it.... thats costing the Govt over £10 billion per year, thats £50 billion over the course of the this Parliament!!

Jury is still out for me on Starmer and Reeves, i didn't agree with the WFA for example but i'll give them more than 7 months.

I am still catching up on this thread and haven't read beyond your post, but you do realise that no one. NO ONE has ever struggled as much as today's young families, don't you?
Those of us who lived through the mortgage rate hikes of the 1980s 90s imagined how bad they were apparently 😂
To be serious, i do think that there should be a little more support for young families and fewer freebies for pensioners, but the assumption on here that every pensioner is rich is so stupid.
One change I would be looking at if I were RR is changing rules around pensioner benefits for people becoming pensioners now and in the future , who have had ample notice and opportunities to pay into workplace pensions to top up their retirement income. If they have chosen not to do so, the state should not be bailing them our with housing benefit etc

The state pension is about the same as the personal tax allowance so if someone does not work they do not pay tax on the pension. Whereas if I reach age 67 (pension age for me) which is not that far off as I will still be working I will give back in effect at least 40% of the pension to the state in income tax (but people are right above there would be no NI on that pension nor on my earnings when I turn 67). I have paid NI without a break full time since 1983 and when I started my state pension age was going to be 60 and now it is 67. I only have state pension, no other pension.

NI starts for employees once they earn about £12,500 a week so as with income tax someone whose only income is about £12k from state mention will not earn enough to pay either NI or tax. So if your only income is state pension there is no tax on it and if that level were your only income whatever your age you would not pay NI on it anyway).

Labout have the same issue the Tories have - too much money wasted on the state. I would rather have much less state provision in general, much less NHS, state schooling etc and much lower taxes eg a 20% capped flat tax./NI for all, no IHT, no stamp duty etc.

I agree about giving them more than seven months absolutely.
But the early optics are not good.
To be honest. It's the acceptance of policies that pps would be shouting from the rooftops about if Tories had implemented them that riles me most. Surely we can agree that if a Tory chancellor had delivered RR's budget, Labour supporters would not be nodding sagely and saying job losses because of the NI increase were being greatly exaggerated?
I think so far Labour's biggest problem seems to be they have no grasp of unintended consequences.

One change I would be looking at if I were RR is changing rules around pensioner benefits for people becoming pensioners now and in the future , who have had ample notice and opportunities to pay into workplace pensions to top up their retirement income. If they have chosen not to do so, the state should not be bailing them our with housing benefit etc

So what happens to the "feckless" worker? freeze to death living in a tent?

If you take away HB for people who have chosen not to pay into a pension, perhaps they couldn't afford it, due to low wages and high bills?
.... these people will suffer or worse.