To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

@Nant90 I totally get it. My kids go to a predominantly “white working class” school, which isn’t our background. I still think you need to seriously chill on the snobbery. It won’t benefit your child. A lot of the children in their class will be very intelligent and lovely. A lot of the parents will be very intelligent and lovely. This is your child’s primary school. Either lean into it, and embrace the school, teachers and other parents, or you might as well just move him now.

It’s possible that your attitude in parents evening got the teacher’s back up a bit, which is why she was so abrasive.

Have you made friends with other parents in his class? (Not just focused on the middle class ones..)

Teachers are trained professionals but as with all professions there are good and bad practitioners. As it’s a job share I would definitely get a 1-1 with the other teacher.

I also don't think you did anything wrong taking him out of pre-school.

I agree you should arrange another meeting - don't forget parents evenings are long tiring evenings for teachers - which they're doing after their normal working day. They don't have long with each set of parents and in many ways it does make sense to focus on the negatives - that's where the kids need support and action so is really the most productive use of the time in terms of helping the child. It doesn't mean that is representative of the teacher's normal attitude to your child.

How does your son feel about school? Is he happy there?

OP a couple of things:
First of all my elder child was put on the ‘special needs’ table in reception as she could not read or write starting school at 4.5. Many other kids had been to a nursery where they taught these things. She went to a lovely nursery that believed in learning through play. She was also very quiet and overwhelmed by the whole experience.

She read fluently by the time she was 5.5.

Fast forward she got all A/A* at GCSE/A level and a first in her degree. She is now a vet.

My younger daughter was probably the brighter child but she had dyslexia. This was not diagnosed until she was nearly 8 as the school refused to refer her. That rings a bell with your son. Not saying it’s the case but loving books and not wanting to read was the same.

It is unprofessional to compare your child to others and not to have anything positive d of kind to say . The comment made about ‘the other silent one’ was complaint worthy. That said there are some poor teachers and some amazing ones and your child has barely had chance to show himself properly. Give it time and write an email to the head explaining your poor experience and subsequent confusion. Now it has been established you have pens in the home and even use them it would be useful to establish what concerns they have about your child in the classroom and how they can build his confidence so he can express more of what he knows.

Er strongly disagree! Job share teachers mean good experienced teachers stay in teaching. It also means you can get a second opinion on your child.

I would be annoyed that she didn't say anything positive. I've always framed things positively in a parents evening and I'd certainly not be sharing other children's work.

I don't think you need to stress about him not being at preschool. Lots of studies show formal learning doesn't make much difference when the alternative is engaged parents.

I fully expect my child to be behind in reception (mix of summer born and SEN) and he goes to preschool. I think he will eventually catch up though. It's very early days! Most important is that he's happy and learning.

Hi OP. I am an older mumsnetter with grown up children. My eldest was perhaps slower than average to write and though he spoke, he was quite shy and reserved. We worked with his wonderful reception teacher to help him on these areas. In reception they are all very young and will go forward at different rates. In a couple of years he had caught up and then some. He is now a surgeon. I understand your hurt and irritation but firstly do not worry, it will be fine. Secondly work with the teacher. She is trying to help not be awkward.

The teacher sounds dreadful. He's only 4. Please don't worry about him being "behind" at this age.

We had Australian friends who were horrified about children starting school at 4, the upper limit is 6 there. It still makes me quite sad to see tiny children in uniform going to nursery, far too young to be so regimented. This child will no doubt catch up and has had a lovely time at home, his poor parents being made to feel they’ve failed him.

You are getting some awful 'advice' on here.

You did nothing wrong keeping him home rather than putting him in nursery. In the long term it won't do him any harm at all. He's just taking a while to settle into a school setting and routine but he'll get there. I've been a teacher for many many years and children at this age make progress at very different rates. My guess is by the time he's in year 1 he'll be flying.

At the moment if he's happy, talking, asking questions and enjoying stories then keep doing what you're doing. He'll be fine.

OP apologies I have not read the whole thread. Have you checked his hearing? My DD had glue ear which meant she coped fine at home / childminder but in larger classroom setting she just couldn't hear. Something in your description of how your son is doing is just ringing bells with me. Good luck, I hope things work out well for him.

We made the same mistake with one day of nursery - dd was with grandparents the other two days I worked. She didn't settle well at all but then when she got her free hours and was in for 3 days it was a lot better. Don't beat yourself up. I made that mistake as a teacher!

I think the teacher was a little inappropriate with how she tackled the issue but it is good they are dealing with it. I'm sure your son will catch up, he is still very early days in his school career. TBH you could have been describing me at that age (I was prob worse actually) but I went on to be a straight a student. I can't promise that will happen but given how engaged you seem to be as parents and how verbally bright he seems to be I'm sure he will progress in his own time. Work with the school and keep giving him all the opportunities you can at home in a natural way.

How much time does he spend socialising independently? Eg without you there, with children of his own age (not younger as they probably were in playgroup)? Because that’s what you’re possibly missing. Being confident with mum around not amongst a peer group is a distinct setting. It sounds like he is having difficulties in some areas, that doesn’t detract from his successes but denying difficulties by focusing on strengths in other areas is not going to help him.

I would ask for another meeting. Could he be shy in a school environment?

My friend's child is the most confident talker I've ever met. Nursery asked her to film him having conversations at home because he was almost entirely silent there. Once they could see the difference between home and nursery, they put things in place to help build his confidence. I think some children can present as very confident when they have the security of their parents nearby but can struggle in the a less secure environment.

It seems you have two issues 1 - your child doesn't have the same level of experience as his peers of being in a larger classroom environment, and 2 - the teachers don't know your child.
You can't solve these by moving (unless you have the resource to pay for a very small class private school) and in fact you'll make the second point worse with a new team.
Go to the meeting and make sure the teacher understands that your ds is different at home and that it is an issues he's having in the school environment, ask for help with this and make it clear he's supported at home and engaged with wider learning at home.
However, you also need to explain to your ds that reading and writing (and speaking up) are important and that he cannot continue to gain knowledge nor share what he knows unless he masters these skills. I understand his impatience but you need to incentivise him and help him understand why this is necessary.

The “other silent one” is a terrible comment.

my kids were very quiet in school. Never put their hands up. This was mentioned at every single parents evening from age 4 to age 18. Yet they were happy bright kids. Went to school everyday with no problems, behaved etc.

give your child time. They are so young. I look back now at those parent evenings and it is such a small snapshot of a school life. In European countries they would be playing at 4. Don’t move him.

Not sure I agree with this tbh - if your son isn't one who thrives in a formal setting, making him miserable in one at an earlier age wouldn't have achieved anything.
Fwiw one of mine never settled at preschool and it's one of my greatest regrets that I persisted rather than pulling him out and waiting for reception.

Other things: your ds sounds great, its clear that he's not confident enough to show the bright, engaged side of himself . I don't know what sort of school has all the children able to write their name neatly by mid way through reception but it wasn't common in the schools my children went to for them all to do that so young. Likewise with the reading, a whole range of abilities is normal in reception and has little bearing on who does well later on.

Should you move him? Maybe but not necessarily. If he takes time to feel confident in a new environment then more switching might not help. Do you get a positive vibe from the school generally?

That sounds like my youngest school with an almost them and us, so although it sounds weird it is very visible and can be quite jarring if you’ve been used to a school where everyone mingled and invited.

I took him to so many toddler/pre-school groups and he has loved all of them. He'd often be the centre of attention singing along at the front, for example.

That’s with you there, though. Nursery or pre school will teach children from an earlier age how to be comfortable with a few care givers, and confident when they’re not being helicoptered as much. I think years ago when small children were cared for more by an extended family and older siblings this was the norm, whereas now it’s the norm for a baby to have their parents one on one attention for years.

Like a standardised score test. That's one of the brands used apparently?
If you Google standardised scores and NFER you can see the graphs.
They do tests end of every term and it's how schools track their progress.

Please please stop responding to any difficulties by moving him. He needs to learn some resilience. You’ve talked about doing things that interest him. What about things that don’t? When things don’t go his way? Your reaction to remove him / change things / stop suggests reactions are quite extreme.

Please also know, as someone who works in education, teachers hate raising concerns. Parents rarely respond in a way that makes it anything less than unpleasant. If they’re raising it with you this means they are really concerned. You need to face what you’re dealing with here or is issues will get considerably worse and the gap widen.

Hello,
Just wanted to offer some words of comfort as I can really relate to this. My son who I had thought to be pretty bright and certainly advanced in terms of speaking (as other people also commented) really struggled in reception. He is naturally shy and overwhelmed I think by large number of children and as I also hadn't pushed the reading and writing before school, his first parents evening noted they were 'worried' about him and his progress. I remember feeling so disheartened when I saw other children's handwriting in comparison to my sons and felt like I must have really let him down! Anyway with some gentle encouragement at home on the reading/ writing front and some extra support at school for shyness (which really helped him) fast forward 8 years and he's now blossoming at high school, still quiet (thsts just his personality and frankly im sick of teachers making it out like its a negative thing) but sociable and happy and in top sets for most things. So moral of story is things can change and all children develop at different paces, just because your child is struggling in reception doesn't mean that's how its always going to be. A lot of the learning will be done with you at home rather than in a class of 30 and it sounds like you're very supportive of that so just give him time. Hope that helps somewhat!

Hello. Just to offer some thoughts. You sound like a great mum and clearly just want the best for your child. The pre-school thing may or may not have an impact but in any event, that can’t be changed so best to look forward. One thing that I wondered about is that parents evening slot tend to be short so what I’ve found is that the teachers tend to spend more time on the things to be worked on so that you know and can help support your child. At the same time it does sound like the teacher was maybe a little worn out as the comment about the other child seems a bit off and also perhaps the general tone. I also think your child likely needs more time to adapt to the long school day, the structure and the intensity of activities and social interaction. This will take some time and that’s ok. I wouldn’t pull him out of the school just yet. Give it a little time and speak to the teacher again. But go with an open mind and see what they have to say.

I think @Nant90 there have been some unkind comments on here. I can relate to your problem to some extent. I moved my son out of creche at age 3 because I felt he didn't like it and he'd been there for 2 years. He didn't like the montessori preschool he went to next and they didn't like him. We had a lot of back & forth, they told his they thought he had autism, then they decided he didn't have it, but his "undesirable" behaviour was down to poor parenting. He was only there for 4 months but in that time he became very withdrawn and sad. I'm so glad i moved him. I took him out of there and put him into another preschool and he loved it, we had no issues. He thrived and was like a different child. Unfortunately they only went up to age 3 so we then moved him again last Sept to another (and final school) and he loves it and so do we. I will add that he was diagnosed with ASD last September and he is very bright. Child psychologist thinks he's potentially "gifted". We haven't disclosed this to the school, he's 4 and as long as he's happy that's all we care about. His speech and maths are advanced for his age. But he does struggle with motor skills. He cannot write, has zero interest, will not hold pencil with pincer grip and he will not learn to read, gets frustrated. He will draw happily but not as well as his peers. Teachers are not concerned and we did not have any judgement from them. At parents evening we get a report which covers strengths and things to work on. And they gave us a sheet of exercises to work on to help with his fine motor skills. It's a collaborative approach devoid of judgement. I feel that my sons teachers are as attuned to him as i am and when they see he is having a bad day they always ask what's wrong, is there anything they can do to help, to support. Yes his teacher can tell you where your son is struggling but what are they doing to support him in the classroom instead of shifting all of the onus on to you with judgemental comments about your parenting. That's not fair. Or normal.
I'm with you on this one OP, trust your gut. Unfortunately there are good teachers and bad. I'd be going back to them requesting a meeting and asking what they are proposing to do about it. I'd also be pulling her up on "the silent one" comment.
In my experience teachers and setting make all the difference. My son has high functioning ASD so slightly different but he really benefited being in a smaller class size with friendly teachers, accommodating environment and consistency - same teachers, same timetable.
On the making him feel more settled at school, can you have more playdates, ask if the school does any parent days where you go in and read a story etc.

My experience with primary teachers has been hit and miss, more so on a "miss" side. I would be sceptical amd double checking every piece of feedback, and wouldn't be entertaining questions along the lines of "do you have paper at home?".
Get him assessed by one of local independents just for the sake of benchmarking his academic side.
I would think he is anxious/distracted in class/around other children if he does smth at home and can't do the same in class.