To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

This 👆. This is what I was telling you in my post yesterday. We switched to Songbird by Julia Donaldson and my DD learnt to read in a few months, overtaking all her peers who were supposedly so “advanced.”

The whole word method - where kids learn to read by recognising words by sight - is still used widely and continues to cause damage. My nephew brought home a list of words early in reception year with the word “pencil”… not decodable at this stage because of the soft c. 🙄

I suspect all my DS's teachers thought he was a bit thick, until year 3, when it finally all clicked. Don't lose faith he is still very young and all kids develop at their own rate.

IF he really is intelligent and is massively underperforming, some sort of SEN is likely. My son has seen an ed psych and is assessed in the top 4% for intelligence, but is under performing. He has dyslexia, ADHD & slow processing. The ADHD was always obvious but the school denied it for 2 1/2 years until we had a private assessment done.

Unless an SEN is severe, it is my interpretation, that due to lack of funding, schools do not address the problem or communicate suspicions with parents. There are other children in my son's class who are clearly ADHD (probably other SEN too, but they are less observable to someone not in the classroom with them) and nothing has been mentioned to their parents. We brought it up several times a year, every year and each time the idea was dismissed as his age, just his personality, and also us being anxious parents.

You've said the reading has taken you a lot of work to get underway. Keep an eye on that. Could be a clue to what is going on with him. Also, the awkwardness in socialising may be another clue. Keep an eye out for any other anomalies too. If there is any SEN, there will be other hints as well.

Your thread resonates with me OP.
My son was also "written off" by his primary school teachers.

He went on to secure a place at a highly competitive selective secondary school. The problem was the teachers did not have the resources to meet his needs.
High IQ is - or rather should be classed as - a SEN. Children who are not being taught appropriately to their level may underachieve through boredom and disengagement, which to a hard-pressed state primary teacher might look like insolence or lack of understanding.
If you have the money I suggest a cognitive assessment with a child psychologist (basically an IQ test). That will identify innate areas of strength and weakness.
You have spent more time with your son than his teachers and you know him best. Humans are perfectly capable of assessing general intelligence in people that they know so I feel sure you are not wrong about your son, and it is possible the "expert" teacher who will have only taught your son for around 30 days and only in the context of a class of 30, has got it wrong.
Definitely speak to the other teacher.
Also bear in mind that children develop in some areas faster than others. Motor skills can lag behind cognitive skills (and vice-versa). Being behind in motor does not mean the intelligence you have observed is not there.

Apologies, I read it in a completely different way. I have to be honest in all the years that I have been doing my job I have only had 1 child not be able to access the phonic scheme that we use. This particular child had a hearing loss and had been taught to sight read before school.
It may be a very slow and steady process but every child makes progress. Our school is in a very deprived area and we have over 65% EAL and very high SEN needs due to a nurture unit. We have regular assessments with a county based phonics lead so I will ask the question when I next see her.

You have to be reassessed from the middle of year 9 onwards and slow processing absolutely does qualify you for extra time via a form 8 if you score 84 or below in 2 distinct areas. I refer you to JCQ guidance should you wish to fact check that but I can assure you slow processing does qualify you for extra time and is the most common reason for extra time.

The point is it’s not true to say all children will learn to read and it’s not helpful to dismiss the significant impact that reading difficulties can have for those children who have them. Even if they can technically read.

It sounds like you have had a bit of a shock about your son's abilities which is always going to be hard but is extremely useful your son will be able to grow as a result.

Children who have been to nursery have been monitored and working to a curriculum. Your son hasn't, reception year will be looking at progress against the same curriculum so of course your son will be behind in some areas.

If he is bright, he will catch up so just keep an eye from here on.

The description of your child sounds exactly like my son before he went to school, articulate interested in the world around him and loved stories. I was also a teacher and probably thought he was average if not slightly above. I went to my first parents evening and got the same about him being behind in writing. When he got to year 1 I realised that he always struggled to read non fiction (no contextual clues) and I started to get told he was bright but lazy. To me this was classic dyslexic trait (dad was I think dyslexic but never diagnosed).

I took hom for an assessment and she had never seen such a discrepancy between being able to read a story and his ability to read singular words out of context.

If Im honest primary school were rubbish with him all the way through. He struggled at the bottom group and didnt seem to get much support. However, he flew when he got to secondary. He passed all of his GCSEs 2 years ago and is currently doing his A levels and going to uni next year to study business management. We just had parents evening last week and I was so proud, the teachers all said that he was a bright, caperble and lovely student.

My advice would be hang in the school you are at if he has already made friends. Advocate for your child, discuss the possibility of SEN (teachers usually can't say specific conditions, because they are not medical professionals) so listen out, they may not say I think he is dyslexic, but say something along the lines of, I notice he seems to have specific spelling problems, then you mention dyslexia and see what they say, or the same for any other SEN condition.

Continue doing what you are doing at home to build his confidence. If he is good at sports take him to that. I tried to get my son to write at home in a panic, this was just awful. He would get upset because he didn't want to do it and I would just feel stressed. So we didn't do this for long even though school encouraged me to do so, it would have ruined our relationship. I did however, try to build fine motor skills through, painting, colouring, mazes, dot to dots and he could build the most amazing peg towers!

Good luck, the most important bit for you as parents is to keep his confidence high!

The teacher wasn't professional by showing other children's work or calling him 'silent'. They shouldn't be doing either of those things.

They are supposed to start with the positives and tell you what he has done well. Did she do that?
The negatives are important but also they should be coming up with strategies.
I agree that you should speak to the other teacher and if they are similar then go elsewhere!

This made me angry as an introvert myself - if your child is introverted that's OK and calling him 'silent' is dismissive and wrong. I thought there was something wrong with me for years because people acted like this.

Baving moved my sone schools due to a move and sen issues. I would not recommend movinf schools. It really throes them and this will all start again in a new school with progress lost.

Persknally, I eould call a meeting with the school. They should have a wellbeing officer and the teacher.

I would write in the email all things you said above and explain you want to work with the school to bring him up to speed and support his social issues.

Then sit down with thrm and create an action plan around it with the school.

My son is a completely different child in school. He struggles with the noise, interacting with other children and completing work. At home he is bubbly, content and will do work. School are working with us to address his issues at school, we have been referred to an in school play therapy service by the council etc. There are things you can do with the school to support.

Don't move him of he is happy. But also please don't subscribe to this idea that he is 'behind'. Or that you have done anything wrong by not having him in preschool. Lots of kids in other countries don't start to learn to read or write until they are 7, and yet their education and career prospects are great.
There is actually quite a few reasons why too, but one of them is that the joints and muscles are not fully developed for writing until at least 7, so fine motor control is genuinely limited.

It sounds like you have a lovely, bright, curious boy. The school system is about measuring them all to the same targets, but children and people are not all the same.

I would trust your gut more in believing in your parenting, it sounds like you are doing a good job.

Ps: You haven't asked for this, so I'm sorry if it's unsolicited, but my top tip regarding reading is to turn on the subtitles on the TV, lots of learning comes naturally and from when they are enjoying themselves 🙂

Please can we stop having every child on Mumsnet being told they have sen it's getting beyond a joke now. The child has only just started school, has not been to nursery and will catch up in their own time!

As a parent of a child in reception who didn’t speak, and the teachers couldn’t assess her ability, it was all about comfort. She’s now in year1 and is doing really well! As mentioned by a few others, book a meeting with both teachers, focus the discussion on your child and their needs- there may be pastoral support they can access to process how they feel and get them to come out of their shell. Or it could be extra practice on digraphs or other things. I’m sure it will improve as they get used to the routine and the children in the class. Good luck!

While I take the point that always moving ds if he finds something tough is not a good pattern to be getting into (keeping in mind that we've done this the grand total of once so far!) I do think it's sad that preschool is not compulsory, but from the way people talk on here if you don't use it because you don't need it for childcare you are putting your child at a massive disadvantage and they are going to be seen negatively when they do start school in comparison to others. I suppose it is worth it if it benefits those who otherwise would have had limited stimulation but it's a bit sad that not going down the formal route but doing other enriching activities is frowned upon. As a teacher, now I'm back at work term time is very full on and I can never do pick-ups, drop-offs or much at all, apart from the holidays. It's hard to regret that year I had with both dc to be honest.

Also, as a sahd dh is doing a great job and takes ds2 to the same groups I used to go to with both of them. I don't know why some people have made disparaging comments about him, other than through sexism. It's also thanks to him chatting in the playground that ds has made some new friends, even if they're not in his class. Dh sees him playing with them daily (I don't) and can't believe he is reserved as the teacher made out in class, but it is a different environment I suppose. Ds2 is signed up for the preschool attached to the school, which wasn't where ds1 went - he doesn't go to nursery at all as not needed but he'll hopefully enjoy preschool more than ds1 did.

Dh is going to catch the head at drop-off on Monday and try and set up a meeting for one afternoon next week and we'll see how that goes before making any decisions.

To people who have asked, ds was there throughout the meeting, though was playing with ds2 with some toys they had out so not sitting and listening to everything that was said all the time. However, he was there for the 'silent one' comment and that is the element that has upset me the most. Obviously, I knew he wasn't writing but it never occurred to me that he would be silent so that was very difficult to hear.

This is a child that is underperforming. The parents need to find out why.

Could be late entry to education.
Could be his natural level.
Could be over anxious mum.
Could be disappointed mum.
Could be SEN.

It's a possibility. Why are you so triggered?

Lots of kids learn without phonics - my mum just put the book in front of me and followed along with her finger while reading out loud (this is long before school) and I just learnt the words individually. Then I did the same with my ds. Not saying it's advisable (seems like it is to me, but I know nothing about all the theory and whatnot on this), but it's certainly possible. I can clearly remember sitting there while we were being taught what sounds individual letters make etc and thinking "Well, this is daft, because the letters don't always make the same sounds" (i.e. sometimes a G is hard and sometimes soft etc). Seemed like we were supposed to learn a lot of rules and then have to learn a lot of exceptions to them too. I quickly mentally divided the teachers into sensible ones (who were just happy to have a kid who could already read, which is after all the goal) and the "silly" ones who'd tick you off if you just looked at a word and said it instead of "sounding it out" letter by letter (boring, to my child-mind). Five years on I'd still pass the kindergarten teacher in a corridor and think, "Ugh, Mrs X, the one who taught in such a boring way and made half my class decide very early on that books are something adults invented to torment kids. What an idiot". (DS's teachers had more sense, fortunately).

I suppose kids taught this way must be teaching themselves phonics the whole time, in a sense, i.e. remembering what letters usually make what sounds and applying it to new words they see. But I'm sure it wasn't conscious. Seems to me most kids will be motivated by wanting to know what happens next in a story than by having to sit learning rules by rote. Don't blame them for often not having much enthusiasm for that.

Damn this whole post, though (OP's, not yours). I'm going to have "Miracle" from "Matilda" (the musical) in my head all day:

Have you seen his school report?
He got a C on his report!
We'll have to change his school
The teacher's clearly falling short...

I'm not berating her at all. I'm trying to provide an explanation for why her son is behind his peers and urge her to not make the same mistake with her younger children. As I explain quite clearly in my comment.

Firstly I am not triggered I am not sure why you think that! Secondly the child has only just started school without having been to nursery and with no interest in reading or writing, every child is different, do you think a child can just go to school and magically learn to read and write straight away? they all go at different paces.

Can you imagine being a first time mum and coming on a website and having people tell you that your child may have special needs when in fact they may not? That could be exceptionally worrying for them.

THIS op is a teacher. She will have an awareness of SEN.

Your language was quite emotive 'getting beyond a joke' and the use of an exclamative.

1/5 children have some for of SEN and their outcomes are greatly improved by early intervention. Waiting to see if he catches up will widen the gap and makes no sense. Early help will have no negative affect whatsoever.

Also, and this is so so important, there are multiple people here saying they had concerns about my kid and now he’s fine. That’s the entire point of early help - it closes the gap, Sen is not permanent. Kids go on and off the register.

It's always the same on these sort of threads.
A mixture of "must have SEN" and the opposite "don't worry about it, because in other countries they don't start until they're older."

Both of those are unhelpful a good amount of the time.

It's irrelevant that other countries they don't start until older (although often when we're talking about starting, many of them actually just have non-compulsory preschool which everyone goes to anyway) because the teacher is comparing the children in this country who have started at that age and they know what a 4yo that has had that amount of lessons will be capable of.

If dh entered a chess tournament for beginners, he'd probably win easily. That wouldn't say that some of those beginners wouldn't ultimately end up being better than him.
However if he entered a tournament for people who had been playing similar length of time, and had similar amounts of instruction, that would give a far better idea of his ability. If he lost badly in every match, then you could assume that he wasn't particularly good; if he won most, then you could conclude he was good. It would be irrelevant that he would beat people who hadn't been taught how to play.

And "must have SEN" I think people think is a comforting way of saying that "it isn't your fault". It's not helpful in most cases, because children can be slow to start, stagnate in progress, etc at times. It may also mean that a parent puts their energy into looking for a diagnosis rather than helping the child where they need help.

Some children will be top. Some will be in the bottom quarter. But it doesn't necessarily stay that way. Some children will thrive at different stages, and what the parents' job is to encourage them and help them achieve their best at their own level. And rejoice at their achievements, however small.

Some teachers are better at giving feedback than others. Speak to the other teacher first and that should hopefully give you a more rounded view of your DS. I had to feed back once after a parents evening that I wasn’t really getting any comments on how DD needed to develop. (Inexperienced teacher.) The next one was so focussed on areas for development that the TA jumped in hurriedly with some positives. The next one there was a proforma that she followed! Giving feedback to parents isn’t easy and there’s also a tendency to latch onto the negative feedback rather than the positive. You’ll remember all the negatives but none of the positives.
I wouldn’t go straight to the head until you’ve spoken to the job share teacher. Then once perhaps once you’ve got a better idea of your DS’s ability in school then speak to the head. But don’t worry, if he’s not been to nursery or preschool, he does need to develop social skills without you there for reassurance and it may take some time, but the school should be supporting him with this and not just leaving him to be silent and that’s something to ask the other teacher. Perhaps see if your DH can make friends with some of the parents in his class to expand his social circle. Friends are fairly loose at that age - DD only really settled into her friendship group in year 2, having been friends with lots of different people.

I think you just need to work with them to support your DS. He has a friend he is fond of and seems OK overall.
I would support fine motor skills at home as much as possible - threading, play dough etc, all the usual to build up his fine motor skills. Lots of DC struggle with writing. My own DS who is incredibly bright took a while to write well too, both his sisters were the opposite. It can be frustrating for them.
I second the decodable phonetic books being important and you can support a lot there too. It will eventually click.
I would not panic about any of this. I would also ask what they will do to support your DS talking more in class. In a gentle way. I think the selective mutism would be my biggest concern. Kids need to be able to talk to the teacher and communicate with them and trust them etc. It is really important and I would ask the teachers what they are doing to support your child in that regard, as the most important thing. It does not make sense that he talks non stop at home, but not at school.

You're making conplete sense OP and no it's not hard to understand.

This is a huge misrepresentation of why people flag potential SEN. It’s nothing to do with making people feel better, if it does that’s an added bonus.

Flagging SEN when there are indicators enables parents and school to put in place early help which is the main and most important thing when improving outcomes for those children. Early intervention is absolutely crucial, it enables the children to reach their potential and significantly reduces the risk of EBSA and mental health issues down the road. Note also the difference between SEN and diagnosis. SEN is needs led. I actually haven’t seen a single comment here telling the parents to chase a diagnosis.