To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

From what you’ve said, your son is a lot like mine. He also had very little preschool but was a sponge for information, chattered away with people all the time. Very little tv, no screens, read to a lot, blending sounds before school but no patience to learn to read. His reception teacher didn’t pick up on his intelligence at all and definitely saw him as ‘average’. So it continued into yr1, with a job share who just continued to see him that way. It wasn’t until yr2 where he had a wonderful teacher who started expecting more from him, which he more than rose to and suddenly he was flying (as I’d always known he would!) He’s now 14, in an academically selective school and consistently near the top of his year (except in English - I guess that reluctance to write is what stands out in early primary, but he’s a mathematician/scientist/engineer at heart) and will likely come out in a couple of years with 8s and 9s in all his GCSEs + an early AS Maths qualification.

So, basically, from what you’ve said it’s likely that he is above average intelligence but as a boy (later to read and write on average), with little preschool (less ‘pushing through the hoops’), and with perhaps a leaning towards science and maths (questioning of everything, rather than imaginative play?) he doesn’t necessarily shine at this stage. I’d stick with it for another year or two rather than leap to take him out, but only if he’s happy at school and you have some faith in the rest of the way the school does things (I was really happy with the school overall, and he was happy, so I just trusted that all the reading and talking / learning at home would mean it wouldn’t matter if he wasn’t stretched in the early years.) In the meantime, try and find out about other schools in your area that you think might be a better fit. Don’t panic - school is a marathon not a sprint.

There’s nothing wrong with being proud of your child but if it goes alongside disadvantaging your child and feelings of superiority - my child must be the best they aren’t disadvantaged etc - then that is a big issue.

I absolutely work with children with SEND. And it is beyond frustrating when dealing with parents who have the attitude that you’re displaying here. What you want to keep in your mind is as a function we are under funded and under resourced. What we will not do is battle parents to convince them their child is struggling because our time is better spent with parents who are on board. We have limited time and have to prioritise.

@Nant90 I don't understand why you put so much value to what ONE teacher is saying. She has 30 kids and obviously hasn't interacted much with your son. You're a secondary teacher so already above this teacher educational wise so trust your own judgment about your son. Follow DH lead, talk to the other teacher. But don't worry about him not doing everything exactly as some others. In Scandinavian countries school starts at 6-7 years old and imagine if we were to compare Danish and English kids that age ! Compare them at 11 years old and you will see no difference. Your smart little boy will be just fine, just let him do things at his rythm.

I was a really quiet child in school, my teachers (and some family members) very clearly thought I was stupid to be blunt. I struggled to learn to read and write and was often made fun of by the teacher in front of the others for not knowing spellings or, if you can believe it, when I actually did well ("if UlceratedPapacy can do it then you should have!") I'd started doing well because my mum started to do lots of reading and writing practice with me at home. Once I managed that I flew academically and was a straight A student and hold postgraduate degrees now. It just took me longer to get there and, if my mum hadn't intervened, I don't think I would have.

That's not to say that your son's teachers are as vile as mine was but I wonder if he's not getting the support he needs at school? Especially as you say a teacher friend was impressed with him outside of the school environment. I'd definitely be interested to hear what the other teacher has to say and, if he's as "behind" as you've been led to believe, ask what support and interventions they are putting into place for him. Ask if they have any recommendations for things you could at home (beyond the patronising response you got last time!)

Like I say, despite being considered "thick" as it was put when I was in KS1, I flourished after I got the hang of the basics. Sounds like you're doing great supporting his interests and encouraging relationships with other children. I'm sure he will get there!

Leave your son where he is. Most children go to nursery several times a week and learn school skills. Your son will catchnup by next year.

I would worry a little but not too much. I would definitely make an effort with him to improve the areas he's behind in. It sounds like your son is bright and inquisitive at home when presumably he is choosing what he enjoys doing/learning about, rather than structured learning at school. My son is in reception too, to start with he didn't naturally love writing and drawing but he's showing huge improvement since starting school. It's difficult though when it's not something they particularly enjoy.

I don't think you should blame the setting or think that there is a problem with your son, he just may need a bit more time to catch up without having had preschool to prepare him. I also don't think the teacher implied he is bottom of the class, he's just behind which probably other children are too. Hopefully the meeting with the other teacher will be more helpful.

My first comment I made purely based off of reading the OP, now I’ve read most of the thread and the OP’s responses, I think this situation boils down to a couple of things.

1. The OP is a teacher herself so knows full well that teachers will raise concerns, this shouldn’t be a shock. It also can’t be a shock considering the school has a high percentage of children from lower income families that the teacher wants to ensure your son has access to the materials he needs to practice at home if he is falling behind his peers. Isn’t this part of your job too, to identify those needs and support if needed? Some parents may be too embarrassed to outright say they can’t afford art materials, by the teacher asking that question it gives parents the opportunity to speak up without being embarrassed. You have clearly taken offence to this because you are not a lower income family.
2. The OP is completely obsessed with the fact her child’s school is ‘full of deprived children’, who can’t possibly be better than her son because all children from lower income families clearly just get shoved in front of the TV and their parents don’t care about them. I think you need an attitude shift when it comes to his peers, because unless you move schools these will be your sons friends and clearly they are doing better than your son in some areas so he could learn a lot from them.

If the truth is known the OP has gone into that parents evening thinking she was better than the majority of people at that school and as a result so was her son. Probably mentioned she’s a teacher when the teacher has raised concerns and that’s the reason why the reception teacher has had to end up showing work from other children to try and get her to understand that her son is actually behind his peers and had to be quite blunt with her responses. Completely different scenario but when I worked for a bank, the worst customers were ex bank workers. They thought they knew everything and we often had to be more blunt with them about things that people who have no previous experience.

I don’t agree with the teacher talking about the other quiet child, but everyone makes mistakes, it probably wasn’t meant in a nasty way but you have taken offence because you didn’t like the overall conversation she was having with you.

This is not on your son, this is on you OP. You need to stop obsessing about the other children who attend that school and start obsessing over your own child’s education and do the things the teacher is suggesting. Maybe if you took her opinions on board, she won’t need to be so blunt with you next time. There are always two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle lies the truth, some teachers are awful, but most are there because they want the best for the children they are teaching.

However all the published secondary school league tables give figures for the achievements of advantaged and disadvantaged pupils, with the majority (with very few exceptions) showing the latter group doing less well.

I think that was all that OP was really getting at. However, I don't think it applies to lower primary and especially reception.

I didn’t say they do less well. I said they’re a problem.

Sadly it doesn't sound like he was very well prepared for school so I would imagine it's taking him a while to find his feet. Whilst you may have nurtured a lot of his interests at home there are some elements, especially around the group skills, being in a classroom, being away from parents etc, that he will have missed out on and will need to spend time in Reception learning. His peer group will have covered this in preschool/nursery/playgroup so will be able to hit the ground running and get stuck into learning other things such as writing and reading.

Re: the quietness (handled horribly by the teacher imho) I imagine that if a child hasn't been in a group setting for some time then walking into a Reception class must be quite overwhelming and many would revert to being quiet and observing what is going on rather than fully participating.

I would suggest adjusting your expectations and allowing this time to catch up with his peer group. It may take a bit of time to get there but it's important that you don't compare him to those that had that had a head start by attending a more formal setting before school. I would also be asking the teacher what interventions they will put in place to support your child reach the expected standard.

Also, and I don't know if you meant it this way, but I suggest reining in your snobbery. Just because children are from a deprived area it doesn't make them stupid.

My son is now in year 1, he did attend a outside nursery 4 days a week from 6 months old and never had any interest in writing and colouring but was very much like yours in terms of vocab, reading, interests etc. Firstly I’d ask whether the pictures she was showing you are done by girls or boys? In my son’s class I’d say that most of the girls could colour and draw and write their name, boys not so much.

This! Years ago when DS started in P1,t here was a system used in Scottish schools at the time called Foundations of Writing where kids weren't taught letter formation until they had mastered certain drawing and observation skills. After initial assessment the DC were put into 4 ability groups; the top group was all girls plus the oldest boy, the middle groups were mixed, and the lowest group were all boys, including DS, plus the youngest girl. All groups' drawings were on the wall and those of the top group were really very good (school was also in a deprived area). So, I wonder if the teacher showed you all the children's work, or just some that she was particularly impressed by. (And, if so, why?)

The teacher does sound negative, patronising and unprofessional. I wouldn't do anything rash at the moment. The DC are all very young and things will change a lot in the next 2 or 3 years. I would definitely arrange a meeting with the job share teacher to find out her take on how your DS is getting on. If he is happy and enjoying many aspects of the school, I wouldn't move him. He will have many different teachers thought-out the school; and both you and he will get on better with some rather than others.

I'd want a meeting with the head. The teacher has made a judgement on your parenting. Showing other children's work was inappropriate, comparing it with your child even more so. "The other silent one" again very inappropriate. The questions about having pens and pencils at home and talking to him could have been done so much more sensitively and if it was a real concern it shouldn't have been left until almost half way through the school year, him being delayed should have also been brought up before parents evening.
The teacher has clearly got some idea that you aren't good parents. I wonder if she is assuming that you are a non working household if dad is doing the school runs and has made an unfair judgement from that.

OK, I was just thinking in relation of how they were doing at school which is, after all, the subject of this thread rather than other unspecified problems.

I mean this with all the love in the world but you sound like some parents I had in my class. When I broached the subject of their child being behind in some areas they went through the roof. Adamant that I was wrong and their child was completely normal. I backed off and just kept an eye on them and supported them where I could. Two years down the line they have now raised their own concerns and think the child is ASD. The teachers are professionals, you might not like what you hear but we spot what is ‘typical’ and not very very quickly. Try to be a bit more open minded instead of just blaming the setting (especially as it’s been two settings….)

Just because people are poor doesn’t mean they don’t care about their kids. Hope that helps.

The teacher sounds rude to me.

I'd certainly not rush to move him but just as another point of view. My little boy in nursery was given a target of blending three letter words, he was reading books at home by himself. In reception he was again given this target and send home with reading books with one word a page. The teacher said he didn't contribute in group work.l but he is really chatty at home.

We moved him schools, not for this reason. On his first day the teacher said how advanced he was at reading. The other school had no idea.

He is now on the gifted and talented register.

Sometimes teachers get it wrong. And sometimes kids don't thrive in an environment.

He sounds similar to my quiet one. We got told they didn’t tick the boxes for a number of things, so we’re “behind” in reception. They started reading in the March and could count to 100. But they’re only interested in them counting to ten. Mine loved map books and could identify a lot of countries. But was marked as knowing nothing about the outside world as nobody asked them. So I would take it with a large pinch of salt.

By the end of year 1 mine had read the whole reading scheme for infants school. Was deemed “gifted” at English, Maths and Art. Eventually became a straight A student for GCSEs and A levels. Rarely got noticed for their achievements though, as quiet but always with a handful of good friends.

So I’m sure these assessments are useful in some way, but honestly I wouldn’t sweat over it. Keep reading with and to him, develop his maths. He sounds fine to me. They like to scare the crap out if you though.

Poor OP you are being really unfairly treated by many on here and you've come here for support.
This sounds a lot like my DS. He didn't go to nursery either and he started school very mature in lots of areas but with poorly developed fine motor skills.
Because he was bright, he wanted the stories etc quicker than he could read or write them. Cue years of frustration until his little hands finally caught up.

He used to record his stories on a dictophone as his writing couldn't keep up with his brain.

Does school do Dough Disco or any other fine motor skills fun practice?

He's dyslexic we now know. His numeracy, vocabulary, etc was always ahead of where he should be.

I'm sure your DS will be absolutely fine. Unfortunately his teachers don't know DS or you yet and they will gradually find out that actually you're supportive of education and that DS hasn't been in front of TV for hours, yes you own pencils etc.
Try not to take it personally

@Nant90 youve had some horrible comments here. He just sounds shy around the unfamiliar adults and probably a bit overwhelmed by going from no preschool straight to reception. My DDs have both been to nursery and were both still shy at first and took a while to come out of their shells. He doesn’t sound academically behind but maybe could do with some handwriting practice.

My eldests reception teacher asked me at her first parents evening if DD ‘had ever held a pencil’ because she was apparently scared to hold one, she was constantly drawing at home! The teacher had only returned from mat leave 2 weeks earlier and the cover teacher who had the class before had never had an issue with her. I knew DD just needed a chance to warm up to her so ignored it. The teacher actually left the school a couple of months later and it turned out several parents had complained about her for various issues. Sometimes the teacher can be the problem (and I say that as an ex teacher). See what the other teacher has to say and work on his handwriting in the mean time.

edited to add, eldest DD is now late primary, and I get told at every parents evening that she has beautiful handwriting. He’s still so young, practice but don’t stress about it!

I have no idea how you got that from what the OP said

I haven’t read all replies but I gather you’ve had a bit of a pile on OP.
I have a DS the same age and I would come out deflated and upset from a parents evenings like that. My DS could read before he started reception but that was by no way due to going to nursery - in fact they very much didn’t care about it! The time you spent with your son before he started school would be invaluable to you both so please don’t beat yourself up from taking him out of a setting he didn’t enjoy and wasn’t benefiting from. If he is behind (I’m not saying he is) then he will catch up quickly, he has only been at school for a term and a half! The teacher doesn’t sound great; I hope you get more constructive feedback from her job share. I can’t imagine a 3-2 split works well and wouldn’t be happy with it for my son (of course I appreciate I get no choice in the matter and I am very lucky that he has a very experienced teacher 5 days a week) 2 days a week isn’t enough imo to truly know your child.

as an aside - I can absolutely not make my DS do anything he isn’t interested in (which is a lot unfortunately) so of course you can’t force him to learn to read! It isn’t expected for him to be able to do that before he starts school.

I think moving him at this stage would be premature but I would have the same knee-jerk reaction. I hope you can work with the teachers to get to the bottom of what’s going on.

”All I mean is that it is undoubtedly a deprived area. Some of the families will still care very much about their dc's education”

“But there will be some dc who, regardless of their innate ability, have come from households where there isn't the capacity to care much about the education of their dc, or to do much about it if they do.”

The suggestion that because people are skint they are less likely to care or put effort in to their child’s education is a classist snob lie. If anything people from deprived areas are more invested in their child’s education as it is a route out of poverty.

The OPs suggestion that people from deprived areas care less about their kids education that she does is insulting.

I remember reception three times. The first time I was so thin skinned about my boisterous boy. Very upset.

The second time my stubborn six year old was locked in the kitchens because in the teachers words he had defied her over playing the recorder. My husband went in and laughed.

The third time we were loaded for bear when the godawful part time morning's only teacher couldn't cope and wanted four TAs in her class for four boys including my son. Because she couldn't cope. All four sets of parents were sent into a meeting with Senco. Senco threw it out.

We all said in the meeting that this teacher who really couldn't cope in the classroom was the issue.

Fast forward 15 years one grandson has had issues with certain pupils who've been taken under grannies wing care for various reasons. Their home life is chaotic, they're feral. It's all very sad but it's really not fair when the school give these children a pass when they're violent and racist. Tell awful tales about other children and are often believed.

Oh please.

I love how op was making judgements about other children in the class, you know, the "disadvantaged" ones because of "the area" being full of "white working class families" but when her son is visibly struggling with things other kids are not at school, the teacher asking about pens/paper etc (which given op lives in the area and is part of the intake, with all these "deprived children") she feels so very judged... Because obviously HER family are totally separate from "those families" and obviously the teacher should automatically know that even though her son is struggling with reading, writing, drawing and socialising at school, that he's actually very bright and goes to museums. Not like all those other disadvantaged families.

You can fake outrage all you want but OP is right in what she says.