To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

It’s giving “There’s just no way my little prince isn’t smarter than those nasty povvos”

despicable.

I can also imagine a teacher thinking no way is Ms Hoity Toity doing this and showing her the work of those disadvantaged kids that is ahead of her own little bright button.

I'm not ignoring the handful of comments as such in that I think each time I mentioned the matter I acknowledged that my comments could be seen in a snobbish light. I honestly think that people who have picked up on that will feel that way no matter what I say. But the fact is, I'm not being classist at all. All I mean is that it is undoubtedly a deprived area. Some of the families will still care very much about their dc's education of course and some of the dc will be very bright. I know that. But there will be some dc who, regardless of their innate ability, have come from households where there isn't the capacity to care much about the education of their dc, or to do much about it if they do. Ds does not come from such a family. We are privileged in comparison to many in the area and have been able to throw both time and money at ds to give him an enriching childhood to date. If despite all that he is sitting at the bottom of the class, which is what this teacher led me to believe, then it is very worrying.

That is all I meant, not that children from deprived areas couldn't do well or that none of their parents care, or whatever it is that people think I meant. Just that if ds is behind all these children now it may bode very badly for his future, since, statistically, many of these children will finish primary below expectations.

Very unprofessional of the teacher if this was the case!

I don't agree. I think she was giving context to the type of intake the school have (disadvantaged children on AVERAGE do achieve less well than non disadvantaged). So saying, even though they MAY not achieve as well, he's behind them all. Which would ring alarm bells for any well engaged parent.

My son is now in year 1, he did attend a outside nursery 4 days a week from 6 months old and never had any interest in writing and colouring but was very much like yours in terms of vocab, reading, interests etc.

Firstly I’d ask whether the pictures she was showing you are done by girls or boys? In my son’s class I’d say that most of the girls could colour and draw and write their name, boys not so much.

secondly, I’d say go with your instincts - the attitude of the teacher seems awful and if they were actually concerned this should have been raised in a meeting - not a 10mins parent evening slot.

Lastly, the biggest indicator for him not engaging and being happy is that he is different at home than at school. This had always been a real flag for me that something isn’t right. It maybe that he is struggling after being with Dad so much, that he hasn’t made friends, he doesn’t like the teacher etc etc

Your little boy sounds great! I think nursery/pre-school is important but when it’s the right fit. I’d say the school isn’t the right fit at the moment, you need to find the reason before you move him.

Good Luck!

That’s even worse.

I now work in an affluent area and can assure you middle class neglect - the kids in nursery from 7-7 from 9 months, wrap around care and basically raised by anyone but mum and dad are a massive massive problem within society. Particularly in teen years. Which you should know. This idea that your kid is better than or should be because… well I’m not even sure but snobbish is absolutely the right word here.

Thank you @Onelifeonly , that's exactly what I was trying to say.

Well seeing as educators can’t win she may as well. Perhaps she has decided that her priority is to level the playing field a bit and work with parents who don’t come with that attitude.

Kids with SEN are also disadvantaged and more likely to achieve less. The irony eh.

Sometimes the school is the wrong school!

When my DS was in nursery I was constantly told how bright he was, well behaved, a pleasure to have in the class. That also reflect my perception of him at home!

When he started reception the teacher basically said he's behind everyone, not the sharpest tool in the box, and really naughty (though I'm sure she phrased it better! But that was the message I came away with!) She also compared his 5yr old writing to others, telling me how terrible it was and how waaay behind he was. I remember saying how advanced the writing she showed me seemed and maybe DS is doing fine for his age but some of the other children are just v ahead. But she said no, he's definitely behind.

I was so worried I took him to a personal tutor who assessed him and said he's absolutely fine for his age. She did about 3 classes with him and then said there really are no issues and she doesn't know what school are talking about and there was no point in him having catch up classes with her because he's bang on target if not a bit ahead!! So we stopped the tutoring.

After other issues with the school came to light we moved him to another school. I was v v nervous to do that but it was definitely the right decision! The new school gave glowing reports of behaviour and academic progress. He's now in year 8 and a straight A student, and quite geeky and well behaved I might add!

Ironically, my younger one started at the same school my older had been in (he started before we moved older one - took a couple.of years for us to realise how crap the school was!!). I could see he was really quite behind in reading and maths, but all I was told was he was doing great!! 😉 I remember saying 'but my older one could do way more and you said he was behind??'

Honestly, you couldn't make it up! How incompetent they were!!

I'd have a good reflect, maybe get an independent opinion from from an experienced tutor or teacher of that age group to establish where he's at, and seriously think about moving him!

Different schools suit different folks!

Again, very unprofessional if so!

To be honest, @Ritzybitzy it seems like you have it in for me, for whatever reason, and are determined to see everything I say in the worst possible light: Ds must have SEND (because you sense that I wouldn't want that - well, no parent would obviously want it, but if he has I'll deal with and you will know as well as I do that many such children will go on to do extremely well), and now I obviously came across as a crashing snob and the teacher clocked this from the start and that's why she was unpleasant to me. It's not the case. I don't believe I came across with any attitude, not hoity-toity or whatever else you want to call it. I was excited about the meeting, yes, and I was probably being a bit daft and expecting to be told how great he was, but just in the way any proud and loving parent would be who'd had no reason to date to believe there may be an issue with their dc. Not at the expense of any other dc. The teacher went in with her negativity from the start, like you have done, and left me feeling like shit. Despite what you seem intent on believing I don't believe I did or said anything to provoke or deserve that.

That is all I meant, not that children from deprived areas couldn't do well or that none of their parents care, or whatever it is that people think I meant. Just that if ds is behind all these children now it may bode very badly for his future, since, statistically, many of these children will finish primary below expectations.

There are 6 years between that point - and lets be honest with a teacher as a parent he won't be doing that as you will intervene before then.

I would think about doing some dancing bears phoncis work at home - some Write from the start hand writing stuff and fun things that build motor skills - just as part of every day life - so you worry less and so you can see quicker if there are issues - and talk to the other teacher see what their take is.

That 2 day teacher appears not to know him, let alone value him at all.
No wonder you feel as let down as you do.

If your son is quiet in school as she suggested, then he won’t be getting much attention. Teachers will probably be attending to the more demanding children and SEN children. In a class of 30 with just one TA, it’s hard to find individual time for the quiet, well behaved ones.

Your son is clearly very interested in how the world works and is very used to having one to one with his parents at home. Therefore, it must be incredibly overwhelming for him in a newly formed reception class with two separate teachers and he clearly isn’t settled enough yet to have found his friendship group - or his voice.

Do have a meeting with the other teacher to express your concerns about him being left behind and ask if she has had time yet to get to know him and his interests properly. Make sure you give her a list of what he enjoys at home.

Your child needs to feel a safe and secure connection to his teachers before he can be confident enough to speak up. Teachers have an enormous burden to be able to provide this and reception teachers especially have to work incredibly hard to promote cohesion in the group and find individual, positive traits in each child to build on.
This clearly hasn’t come about for your child with the 2 day teacher. I hope you find the 3 day teacher more professional and helpful.

Do as much as you can at home to keep his self esteem up where it should be, it sounds like you are doing wonderful job at home as it is. Persevere as much as you can, without putting him off, with sounding out phonetic words and with pencil control. He needs to not only recognise numbers but also start to understand their value and place so talk numbers and play with them as much as you can in fun games and every day tasks.

I would also organise a play date or two… get to know the mum of the other quiet child in his class and see how that goes.

Don’t give up yet OP. I completely understand your upset. But give it a bit more time to work with the other teacher.

And there we have it. This is about your disappointment and not your child’s difficulties. Which has been clear to many of us from the start.

Sorry, I need to thank everyone who has posted suggestions of resources and strategies we could use to bring on his reading and writing. We'll certainly be having a look at these over the coming weeks.

I don't think yabu, it seems the teacher was extremely negative which is absolutely the wrong way to go about speaking to a parent. I worked in nurseries for years and did lots of parents evenings, I would always make sure to lead with a few positive things before going on to any concerns. That should be standard and for her to show you work from other kids as some sort of example of how "badly" your DS is doing is really bad practice.

I would definitely speak to the other teacher, but I would hold off on moving him because you could get a gem of a teacher in year 1 and he may catch up very quickly.

@Nant90 I took my daughter out of ore-school. She absolutely HATED it. She had very little organised education before starting school. For YEARS I was told that she was very quiet. All the way until she was about 15. At home she was my loudest child. And honestly, I don’t know any kid who writes their name ‘neatly’ at that age.

I played with her, read to her, tried unsuccessfully to teach her how to read. She got there in her own time. Your boy sounds like he has what my daughter had. Two engaged parents who are invested in their child’s education and who spend time teaching him and reading to him. That will be the biggest influence on any outcome.

She is about to finish A levels (she’s doing 4), and has been accepted into Law. She is still a little quiet, but she has a group of friends, she is social, she is happy, she is smart.

A few years ago she told me she was indeed unhappy at pre-school, and happy when I took her out. My sister in law (who is a teacher) said something that stuck with me. She said they are going to spend so many years in a classroom. Sometimes putting that off for a little while is a positive thing.

I wouldn’t make any knee-jerk decisions, just keep an eye on him. You’ll make the right decision.

Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds are known to achieve less well than those who aren't from disadvantaged backgrounds, I don't know why you're trying to push some sort of "snobbish" label on to op when she's just using a well known metric for academic achievement.

Well I think you've shown your true colours there as well. Sorry, I didn't know feeling proud of your child and wanting to believe they are doing well is a crime now. Are you sure you work with pupils with SEND as to be honest you come across as incredibly judgemental here.

Is there any chance your dc could have eyesight issues? If he's generally bright but shying away from reading and writing it might be worth checking.

I understand it's a stressful situation fir you and the teacher trying to apportion blame by suggesting your home life is the cause was unkind and unhelpful.

I'm an experienced primary teacher/SENCO/deputy head. I now work for an advisory service linked to educational psychology.
He might just be introverted, and quieter. There will be a huge range of abilities in reception and this will usually even out over the next couple of years.
However, the regression you described where he initially enjoyed nursery but then didn't; the difficult with reading and writing; the 'silent' presentation (unless with completely familiar caregivers) and gravitating towards a similar child .. could all be early indicators of social communication difficulties (or potentially autism).
The teacher is trying to evaluate the likelihood of this by the sounds of it, although she has been a bit clumsy in the way she has handled it.
I would work with the school, as early identification and intervention for these difficulties is hugely important in achieving good outcomes.
It's understandable when parents are defensive and feel that people just haven't 'got' their child, but I see this sort of conversation so many times, and parents not being willing to listen to the teachers' observations and concerns happens a lot. Our observations of our children at home is in an environment with zero social communication demands, and much lower demands of doing non-preferred activities (you said yourself he showed bi motivation for reading or writing do you didn't pursue it). He will present extremely differently at school. (This is also likely to have been the shift between the toddler room and pre school rooms at nursery, the introduction of more adult led activities).
If he has social communication difficulties this does not in any way mean he isn't 'bright', but he will need support to manage the school environment, perhaps tailored approaches to teaching/learning, to achieve his potential.
As well as working in this field I have a son who sounds very similar to your LO. I can remember the emotions of the teacher having this type of conversation, the speech and language therapy assessment where they asked if I played with him/talked to him etc before we could get a SALT referral. It's horrible. Sadly there are children with difficulties due to this and the professionals need to target the right support to the right people.
I would urge you to listen to what the teacher says and work together to decide how to support him.

edit: also, in my experience I disagree that you have harmed him by taking him out of preschool, as it sounds like you have provided a secure, language rich, stimulating environment. Obviously not all children have this hence the focus overall on strong early years education, but there are many countries in the world (with great educational outcomes) where he would not yet have started any type of formal education.

When my daughter was in reception they told me she couldn’t put three bean bags in a ring when asked to, couldn’t count to ten etc She could do all these things and so much more. They didn’t know her at all. Don’t worry too much just yet. My daughter did really well in the end, it just took her a while to get into the groove. She got A star, A star, A in her A levels last year. There’s a lot still to play for so just stay calm, keep doing as much enrichment as you can at home and keep an open mind.

Haven’t read other comments but please don’t feel judged by the teacher. Teacher will only be trying to establish the facts, fact is lots of kids will have limited interaction at home and tv on etc.