To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

Absolutely - I was at school with a boy who was in the lowest set for English and Maths all through primary. In early secondary he was average at best, by late secondary doing well, got some decent but not outstanding exam results. We went to the same uni and he did a science course similar to mine - within a year he was excelling, went on to do a Masters in a very challenging area and is now in his 40s, earning a very high salary as a senior manager in a scientific company. Very glad we grew up in Scotland with no 11+ exams - he could easily have been written off at that age.

You’ve described very fixed controlled socialisation, a lack of resilience, possibly controlling behaviours from him and refusal to engage in things he does not enjoy or finds difficult. Given his background it is hard to know if that’s SEN or lack of opportunity to develop the appropriate skills.

Gosh that is so negative - can you see how that reads?

How is playing in the playground fixed and controlled? What controlling behaviours from him? To be fair, there are plenty of things he engages in that he doesn't massively enjoy, such as when we do stuff that caters to his brother's interests. He has shown massive patience and empathy with him and it's often commented on how well he plays with younger children and how gentle he is. I assume people will jump on that as another thing that shows he's not school-ready, but surely it can also be seen in a positive light? Like most children he has shown resilience at stuff like learning to ride a bike, climbing etc. He did persevere with those perhaps because there was no alternative. I think the thing with reading is he can get to the more interesting content that he wants if we read to him. I can see how that can be seen as a form of laziness but, Christ, I don't think it warrants the negativity here.

Exactly - if we don't have faith in our own children's ability, who will? We need to advocate for them and be their cheerleaders.

Our DD was a bit like this. Never stopped babbling at home but nervous when she started school. Good at some stuff and not so much at other stuff.

Now shes been in school a year ish she is much more settled and has more buddies. Still quiet at school but whatever. All kids are different.

Maybe just give it some time? Really hard not to worry about absolutely everything though! I feel you!

I’m a secondary school teacher and really struggled with my children’s time at primary school. Primary achoolis a very different beast to secondary so to those who say OP should know better please pipe down.

My eldest was treated very badly at primary , only some of which is coming out now aged 16. Being told how academically weak she was is proving tricky to undo despite gcse results that prove otherwise. My youngest’s anxiety was not reported to me. Fast forward a few years and my eldest has a diagnosis of ADHD and is doing well while after a period of self harm my youngest gets has the support at home and secondary school she needs. But all of this could have been avoided by a more supportive primary setting.

disclaimer, I know there are great primary schools out there but it has not been our experience

Just a thought but he might be struggling socially because he’s not with a parent. If he’s only ever been places like playgroup with you or your DH he’s lost his security and is now in a noisy classroom setting alone?

Sounds like he knows how to socialise he’s just used to having you or DH around?
I would definitely have a meeting with the other teacher as you’ll get a fuller picture and be able to make a plan from there.

Trust your gut and yourself as an expert in your own child. Don't start doubting your child's ability and talents just because they don't align with a set of narrow criteria the teachers have been asked to plot their class against. All children develop differently at different times. They may not be even looking at the areas where he is outstanding. Don't beat yourself up about him missing out on pre-school. Lots of kids do. It sounds like he has a wonderful home life where he has been allowed to develop at his own pace.

It would be worth looking into whether he is neurodiverse/ has any special educational needs. My DS who is incredibly bright was considered low ability in primary and in all the bottom groups. His preschool teachers couldn't believe it and it didn't fit with their experience of him at all. It turned out he was severely dyslexic and struggling with sensory processing disorder which made the school environment difficult for him. We went through the whole of primary with him regarded as lovely but a bit thick. He smashed his GCSEs and is now studying A-levels and planning on studying at a university abroad.

Get some expert advice and believe in your child.

I don’t need to look at his strengths - you know those and focus on those. Which I get but you’re not recognising possible areas of difficulty.

Playing in a playground isn’t fixed and controlled. What is fixed and controlled is that all his socialisation appears to have involved you.

Controlling behaviours - refusal or resistance to engage in activities or environments he finds difficult or does not enjoy. You described that.

Most children play well younger peers or older peers although I would be interested to know if it’s reciprocal play or not. It rarely is when it involves younger peers, instead more of a care giving role which requires a different set of social skills.

He persevered but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t enjoying it or even found it particularly difficult. The sensory input of activities like that often make it much easier to master than things like social interaction with a peer of the same age or learning a cognitive skill like reading.

Lazy is not a word I have used here and is absolutely not a word I would use in relation to any 4 year old ever. That’s the last thing this sounds like.

In your shoes I would speak to the other teacher as well but I would also get ahead of it and ask to speak to the senco.

I would ask myself honestly, has he actually built friendships with peers of his age. Can he and does he play well with those kids without the need for adult support. Make sure he is not on the periphery of interactions. I would start getting him into a sport, football is actually
ideal as in addition to exercise, motor skills it really does help with social weaknesses. Those kids who struggle can be spotted quite quickly and it will give you an opportunity to observe how he builds relationships compared to his peers without actually being part of those relationships.

You have described a lot of positives but there are some clear difficulties that have been identified that are actually consistent with his life to date - he is struggling in areas where he has had limited opportunities. But it’s the good old chicken and egg - has he struggled because he didn’t have them or has he resisted them because he can’t do it or finds it hard.

I'm an early years teacher with 15 years experience. Your son's teacher sounds very unprofessional. I would never show work to "compare" children in that way during a parent meeting. He's so young, to make those sorts of judgments is ridiculous. Children in the first year o schooling change hugely over that ome year. And her saying 'ah yes, the other silent one' is hugely disrespectful both to your DS and to the other child. I would definitely speak to the other teacher but if you don't feel right about the school then listen to your instincts and move him. My eldest DD was in a very academic school from age 4 to 6, very high achieving, outstanding Ofsted etc, but she was so much happier when we moved her to a much more chilled out school due to a house move. And now she's doing great in her GCSE year. Listen to your instincts, you know him best and schools can vary widely in their approach to learning.

Personal opinion. I think you are overthinking the whole thing for reception.

Different teachers have different styles, this one maybe never presented your ds's progress with the good and bad bits and focused more on the areas where he needed to work on (obvious areas from lack of preschool), it is not always a bad thing, if you don't know what needs done you don't know how to support your ds outside school and parents evenings are so short there is no time to go into much more depth.

The main thing to get from the parents evening is where he needs support, which primarily the school will be working on, and how you can support those areas at home too. Or if there are significant concerns what the plan is to address them and how you can support.

ds(21) barely spoke for this first 3 years of primary school. Every parents evening it was the same message. Then from the 4th parents evening onwards they complained he never shut up! 🤣 They all develop in different areas and at their owns paces at this age.

And just to add, don't feel obliged to get him into any particular thing, just follow his interests. And in regards to reading, that takes time. Don't force it. Continue enjoying reading stories to him for as long as possible. His reading will come in time. All children are different and constantly surprise us with when they are ready and able to master different skills. You sound like such a lovely mum and he sounds like a brilliant little boy! Don't doubt yourself, or him.

Teachers can be pretty crap at recognising ability. Meet the other teacher and focus on your child's learning style and what you can do to support this. Have you ever done join the dots activities? They are good ways to learn to hold a pen and you can use pictures of things he likes mixed in with number and letter shapes.

Play games like snakes and ladders and get him to count the moves. Play dominoes. Move on to pontoon and cribbage.

Whatever the reasons why your child is not doing as well as you'd like at school there is a lot you can do at home.

The school/teachers don't sound great. Biff and chip are shit, for starters - very outdated.
You may need to think about getting an assessment done. Either by an educational psychologist or an Occupational therapist. He could be bright / very bright, but if there's a coexisting weakness such as dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyspraxia then there'll be no evidence of it in his written work, and it'll knock both his confidence and teachers' perception of his ability. Early identification would help.
Moving schools will not necessarily help without getting to the bottom of what's going on.

Honestly OP you are getting some silly responses here. It’s not unusual for some children to be quiet or shy or introverted or to have their own areas of interest. I don’t know why we are so accepting of this in adults and so keen to see it as evidence of poor social skills in children. Non of mine were the happy babbling away types with new settings or staff and all have thrived. You know your son and you know that you got a very substandard consultation.

The only thing that worries me about this school is that from your description they are giving you information about other children - the remark about 'the other silent one' and also showing you other children's work to compare to.

This ⬆️

This is terrible. I have 4 dc's and when they were at school none of the teachers ever compared them to other children. This is really bad practice.

Your child doesn't sound backward at all - it sounds like he's quiet and maybe not engaging in class but the teacher went about explaining this to you in a really terrible and counter-productive way. I'd be livid personally. You need a meeting with the school.

What's done is done! It's how you go forward from now is what counts.
You can help develop his fine motor skills if that is a major thing but he may never be a Picasso but then neither am I and I'm a grandmother!! Children all develop differently and I can see this in all my GCs - some flit from one thing to another whereas another will draw quite intricate pictures and he is only eight! Helping kids to be dexterous is never a bad thing and can achieved in a variety of fun ways.The variety of craft kits that are available will help immensely here. Reading is great and you have developed his enquiring mind so that he already knows ways of finding out information - now you need to encourage him to do the legwork in doing the 'finding out' with your help. The internet is obviously great for this along with books but I also know that doing 'everything' with a screen is detrimental (to the point that in one of my jobs in a college exams office) in that writing skills become laboured, time consuming and in appearance sometimes shocking! which resulted in extra time being needed for students with this issue. He may have been a little lazy with reading by saying 'just read it!' but you can change that by having him pick out words and so on, even if he spells the letters out on a word he is beginning to read.

The teacher you've met sounds a bit shit, and it looks like she doesn't know how to engage with your child. But there are good and bad teachers everywhere so moving him to a different setting won't make a huge difference.

Meeting the other teacher is a good idea. But I also think you are overthinking this a bit. As you've said yourself there plenty of things your child is good at, and you have also had outside opinions highlighting this. This is just 1 teacher's view, who has only known your son for a few months and doesn't sound very interested in trying. Don't put more weight on this than it deserves.
It might be that he's not great at doing the very specific things they are asking him to do now, but he is progressing and you can help him achieve those things at home.

@Ritzybitzy

You have been very selective in what you've focussed in on

Playing in a playground isn’t fixed and controlled. What is fixed and controlled is that all his socialisation appears to have involved you.
The child has been involved in a drama group. The OP will not have controlled this setting. Yes taken him there but this is the same as school. A setting where the parent takes them then the child engaged with the class.

Controlling behaviours - refusal or resistance to engage in activities or environments he finds difficult or does not enjoy. You described that.

He is resilient and accepting of attending things for his younger sibling. He does not have any issues. Might he enjoy them too? Who knows. But you can't assume he does.

In fact other than the school and playgroup there are no other environments the OP has flagged up. Not liking a school setting hardly makes a child unwilling and unable to engage in activities or environments they don't like in general. All children will have an issue with something. No child easily joins in with everything.

Most children play well younger peers or older peers although I would be interested to know if it’s reciprocal play or not. It rarely is when it involves younger peers, instead more of a care giving role which requires a different set of social skills
The OPs friend who teaches this age group has been impressed by his play. He plays with his age group at NCT and activity groups. This suggests all your assertions that he may not play well are invalid.

He has friends just not many in his class.

The benefits of being at home with the attention of a good engaged parent will benefit him long term much more than preschool.
I think he is not used to being in a classroom and with a large group of children yet, and he is likely using all his bandwidth trying to navigate this. Once he feels settled he will catch up on the shape-sorters!

Assuming it’s a drop off drama club that is a very rigid and structured environment and at that age involves very limited independent social skills.

I specifically suggested checking whether on periphery of those interactions and doing so without adult support. The types of settings described suggest mum is present.

At the end of the day, as I’ve now said repeatedly, early support and intervention will not harm him. Taking concerns seriously will not harm him. Ignoring concerns and doing nothing has the potential to do harm. I know I would be taking the path of least risk but that’s me.

None of that sounds awful to me. Perhaps not presented the best, but appointments are short and not every teacher is a great communicator with adults. Now you have a realistic idea of where he is. Not every child is going to be the best at everything all the time, nor are they all going to be outgoing.
For reception, in my opinion, if he's happy and learning let him be. The very worst thing we can do for small children is put pressure on them. (I have a shy just turned 5yo reluctant reader myself). Most kids work it all out in time, with the right support.

You’re absolutely right and the negativity you’ve encountered from some people here is absolutely ridiculous. Ignore them.

If I may venture an opinion, your boy sounds lovely to me. I think perhaps this is just a simple issue of having slightly lower levels on confidence in an educational setting because this is the first time he has been exposed to it? He won’t seem lacking in confidence when you are with him because he will always feel secure around his mom (and you do sound like a lovely mom)
Perhaps it will just take him a little longer to come out of his shell than the children who did attend nursery/pre school? But when he does, he may well start displaying all the wonderful things that you see to his teachers once he has properly settled.

I think confidence is often overlooked. My friend had a 3 year old in nursery and the key worker wanted to send him to a speech therapist because he didn’t talk much at Nursery. But he was always FULL of chat at home so it wasn’t that he didn’t have the skills, he just needed a little longer to come out of his shell than the others. We shouldn’t say children are behind if they aren’t completely socially comfortable in large groups. Many adults don’t like them!

But just think, if he sticks with it and does start to build up his confidence how proud he will be of himself - that will build the resilience he needs to go through school life.

My son and now grandson were like this reception year and beyond. Butterfly minds I called it. They just weren't in the same place as some of their peers and lacked concentration.

This reception teacher ought to know this. Especially with boys.

It does pass as they grow older. Keep reading with him at this age that will give him confidence. We read together every night

What sis you expect if he didn't go to nursery only school?

Just as you would socialise a puppy you should have socialised your child, they learn so much more from being around other children at a young age.

He will catch up though, it just needs time and fit you to stop thinking he's better/brighter than the other children as that's doing him no favours.

He's very young still and given time and the right guidance will eventually fit in better with the other children and reach their level in class.