To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

Sounds like a weak teacher to me but, yes, you are also correct that blithely making out your child is some sort of misunderstood wunderkind who would thrive anywhere but where he is does indeed make you sound like an arse.

What's more likely is that he's slightly behind, and this is basically meaningless given the different rates of growth / development for four year olds. In six years time, he might very well turn out to be the genius you and everyone who knows him thinks he is.

I'd try and deal with the teacher in situ. If he's not great at mixing (which is fine) then moving school would just disrupt him more.

Our son was very young when he had a teacher who was really quite negative. It was disheartening at the time but he moved up a year and has had many different teachers since then and is thriving.

Your son is very young, he’s finding his feet. Stop comparing him to others - whatever their background - and focus on supporting him transition. Wait until you speak to the other teacher - as a PP said, go in with an agenda and seek to identify key areas to work on at home.

And OP, ignore posters telling you what you should have done differently in the past. You can't go back and change it now and none of us have any idea what was right for your family at that time. I pulled my kid out of nursery in the last year because he wasn't happy. He's a hugely popular kid and always has been. Another of my children didn't go to nursery at all because she wouldn't have liked it and didn't want to be left but she was just about ready for preschool. She ended up being home educated for a while and her social skills improved massively outside a school dynamic. I find posters on Mumsnet are useless for anything relating to children and social dynamics. They don't know anything about children outside school and assume something golden is happening there.

Because he's 4 years old so whether he's a bit behind or not in reading or writing at this age is irrelevant. And he clearly has a mum that wants the best for him and is supporting him at home. What do you think we should say? "Oh well he didn't go to preschool and he can't write his name in Reception so let's just write him off?"

Or - perhaps many parents think that in this country we start formally educating children at a ludicrously young age.

In fairness to the poster you’re responding to, the Russell Group is incredibly misunderstood by both students and parents. It’s not an indicator of academic excellence, or an Ivy League equivalent as a lot of Brits like to claim. It’s simply a lobbying organisation. There are universities outside the Russell Group that are superior to universities in the group.

OP, the teacher doesn't sound particularly professional to be honest, but many aren't and such is life. I remember what I was like with my eldest in reception - you tend to over-analyse everything. But honestly, in a couple of years, you won't remember any of this. They all learn and develop at different times. Being able to write their names at 4/5 means absolutely nothing. With regards to reading - some kids are very good at decoding letters / words, but don't engage with the actual meaning of the words and the stories. Other kids are the other way round and everything inbetween. One of mine could barely hold a pen until he was about 7. I recall one teacher explicitly telling me - 'this child will struggle every day of his life.' He's now at Cambridge. Comparisons to other children in reception are meaningless and this teacher should know better. Hopefully the other teacher will have a more supportive attitude. Don't be offended though by this first teacher asking you if you have pens and paper at home. She's probably used to many families who don't - she doesn't know you (yet) so it's nothing personal.

Reading your update, yes he was at the front singing or confident but

1. You were there with him
2. If he was one of the oldest you could think he was more confident or sociable than he was, you weren't seeing him with lots of other similarly aged children without parent supporting him nearby

To add, from the day he started to the day he left, my son hated school. He had loads of mates, he worked hard with a side order of pissing about occasionally and had fantastic relationships with his teachers. He occasionally meets a couple of his secondary teachers to watch footy and have a pint. But he detested the structure of school. He knew it was a necessary evil.

It sounds like it's the social aspect your DS is really struggling with. He's probably in a larger group of children than he's used to, many kids may know each other from nursery, and there are always a couple of big personalities which he may not be used to.

No point in focussing to what you did or didn't do, you need to ask the teachers what they are going to do in class to get him more settled and confident. When they get him settled. The problem is at school, not home. It's their job to find a solution.

I'm a secondary teacher too and I agree with you entirely that this teacher has been unprofessional and unkind in her communication with you about your son. If there were serious concerns about his progress then she should have communicated this with you before the meeting. It's never a good idea to blindside parents like this and she should know better.

It also sounds like she doesn't particularly know or care about your child. She doesn't know who he plays with and she is comparing him to others rather than focusing on him as an individual with his own path and interests. She also doesn't know you as a family - she is making huge assumptions about you and your home life. As a primary teacher with one class of students she spends all day with, she should know each child and their family situation inside out in a way secondary teachers can't because we have so many more pupils.

I'm also surprised that the 2 day teacher was doing the parents' evening when she would know the children less well. I would have thought that the 3 day teacher would have been involved in some way in sharing her views on your child too.

Definitely meet with the other teacher before making a decision, but I'd absolutely not be happy with the way this teacher was thinking about and talking about your child. I wouldn't want my child being taught by someone who had written them off and didn't take much interest in them.

I would also say that at his age, your son is so young and he's still adjusting to being at school. Every child is different - as you well know, being a teacher - and every child progresses and adapts at their own pace. I wouldn't worry about him being 'behind'. He's articulate, chatty and so on, and takes an interest in the world around him. So what if his art work isn't as good as the others in his class, or his handwriting is a bit messy. He's 5. Let him take his time. You haven't done anything wrong and there is nothing 'wrong' with him.

I remember seeing another child's workbook (a friend's child) the same age, 2 months younger even and being horrified at the way every picture was neatly coloured in whereas my son still "scribble" coloured. The Montessori had flagged up to me fine motor skills deficits but it wasn't through lack of going to nursery! It was a developmental thing.

I gotta say, the teacher sounded very unprofessional. Asking you if you "have paper and pencils at home"? Really? Does she expect any parents to live in the stone age? How condescending. Also, showing you the art work of other kids to compare your kid to. It's a horrible thing to do. I hope she doesn't do it to the kids. That would just result in bullying. And referring to another kid as "the other quiet one".

I would be concerned that my child's education would be neglected by this teacher. They seem to be ignoring "the quiet ones"

It’s not irrelevant though. It can be a marker of SEN, in fact it is one of the early markers. And early intervention is absolutely key in determining outcomes / child reaching their potential. In reality the “he will be fine” operates on the assumption that he is not one of 1/5 with SEN which could limit progress. Assuming he is one and supporting intervention won’t disadvantage him. Your approach potentially does and in reality more likely will.

He didn’t have the benefit of pre school so of course he will be behind. Give him more time.

Yes I’m very grateful, but don’t assume there weren’t a lot of sacrifices during that period too. For us, it was a matter of readjusting priorities.

@Nant90 I'm sure this probably isn't the case and it's just because you are thrown/upset but honestly the way you keep constantly mentioning how "disadvantaged" some of his peer group is really isn't relevant or helpful.

It kind of comes across that you just automatically assumed he'd be "better" than most because of their backgrounds and are put out at hearing some of them are actually doing well in areas that your child is struggling in, at least in the school environment.

i used to work in a school in a deprived area. 1/5 were provided breakfast by school. 1/3 were provided shoes and uniform. 1/10 didn’t have a washing machine. It’s not the dark ages. It’s the age of poverty. It’s absolutely an appropriate question to ask as often the schools can and will provide to families struggling.

I also felt at the time the teacher just didn’t really like our DS and I think I was correct - fine, he was a super high energy small kid and I can imagine it was exhausting to manage him and the other kids in class. Sometimes it IS a teacher problem. But moving him isn’t the answer - we have to learn to get along with all kinds of people in life and adapt to different situations. This is part of that learning.

@Nant90 I've sent you a PM.

He sounds like my son who is undergoing autism assessment. He was miles ahead of milestones at home, where's he's happy, safe and comfortable. but underachieving at school. He could count to 100 before reception but our first parents evening we were told he couldn't count to 20. He can, I know he can but unfortunately he didn't show that to his teachers and they can only assess on what they see. He's in year one now and he was working towards his targets at the last parent's evening, the teacher said he struggles to complete the task. I know he can do what's being asked and when I asked him why he doesn't do it, he said because if you finish your work you get more work so he doesn't and then he has to do less.
He'll find his way.

The teachers given you her honest feedback, maybe not in the best way but it's what she sees. It doesn't mean your child can't do those things, it means he isn't doing them at school. He's only just started, give him chance to find his way!

Your DS sounds the same as mine. Super chatty at home -quiet in school. He just didn't want to get in trouble. Nothing wrong with that. He's turned out to be super academic across the board but no-one at primary school particularly noticed until the upper end- as long as he was well behaved. Didn't make a jot of difference. I didn't teach him to read before he went to school. Or do maths. In the first years I'd say he was of average at them.

He didn't particularly have lots of friends in primary school- he had a few close friends and got on with everyone else. He just knew who he liked. Plenty of friends now. He was shit at art then and still is but he's a bit handless in general.

Teacher sounds awful but you'll know yourself teachers, like every profession, are a mixed bag. My DS's work was never ever compared to anyone elses. I agree with your DH push back and ask for a meeting with the other teacher.
I quickly learnt not to expect much from most primary school parents evenings. Unless your kid was swinging from the chandeliers or had serious learning issues it was usually meh.

Pencils and paper are considerably cheaper than a washing machine and, sadly, also cheaper than breakfast.

When was this?

This is a thread about a child struggling in reception. We then have lofty bollocks about ‘only 3 Bs’. It isn’t about the politics of higher education.

The will of mumsnetters to put others down at any opportunity is truly depressing.

I would definitely ask to speak to the other teacher as well to see if the opinions are consistent, but considering moving him because you think your child is advanced and you have now in fact found out he isn’t, isn’t going to help him in the long run. I think you also need to reflect on why your son may be behind other children as well.

I’m not an expert but from what you have written it seems to me that the majority of the areas he is struggling with stem from the fact you haven’t allowed him to socialise before starting school.

Most kids struggle in new surroundings at some point, I know my son has and most of his preschool class have as well. By you removing him from preschool without giving it a real chance you haven’t taught him how to cope and settle in. School is a massive change, and if he isn’t used to dealing with that type of change and being around 20/30 other kids making noise it’s obvious that he will take longer to settle in than other children who have been taught/shown resilience. Is the teacher aware he didn’t go to preschool?

It might be a good idea to socialise him outside of school with kids other than your friends children. We become comfortable with who we spend the most time with, it doesn’t seem like he has had enough opportunities to spend time with other children which is probably also why he is struggling at school. I would take an educated guess he is completely overwhelmed and as a result his brain has almost shut down from learning/speaking because he doesn’t know how to cope with the sudden change in atmosphere. That said, it probably doesn’t help he has 2 part time teachers as that’s another change he has to adapt too.

I’m not a expert but I do think once he is happy actually being at school in that type of setting and is used to the other children he will probably relax a bit more and the learning will start falling into place.

This isn’t a bash against you, as parents we do what we think is best for our children. You can’t change what has already happened, but please don’t give up on him and change schools because you have found out he isn’t as bright as you thought. You’ll have the start the whole process again and by moving him you are just teaching him if he can’t cope, he can just give up and move. I’m pretty sure boys generally take longer with reading and writing than girls, and on the flip boys tend to be better at maths than girls are. When he moves up to Year1 you will probably find some subjects he wipes the floor clean and leaves the other kids in the dust with.

I would be keeping in contact with his teachers and doing everything they mention.