To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

https://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/content/features/early-education-in-sweden-no-comparison/

most kids start at state funded preschool aged around 12 months whilst both parents work and it’s mainly based around play, outdoor activities and social interaction learning until 6 when they start school.

He's 4 years old though.

He might have a SEN, he might not, but he is 4. 4 year olds don't need such pressure.
And the way the teacher has communicated is inappropriate. She shouldn't be comparing him to others or referring to a child as 'the other quiet one'. That just smacks of her not trying to understand children.

I think we all see our children for the amazing little humans they are and it can be a bit of a shock when you hear that they need help in certain areas. It can take some children time to settle in to the new environment. My son attended nursery and struggled to settle in to school while my nephew never went to nursery and settled in just fine. Not everyone can be top of the class all the time and thats absolutely fine. Work with the teacher on the areas outlined. Honestly don't worry about comparing your child to anyone else and help them to be the best version of themselves no matter where they are in terms of the classes progress. My son is doing above average now whereas a year ago he was absolute bottom for behaviour, attention span and quality of completed work. Best of luck.

He’s so, so young.

I don’t believe the EYFS setting is right for every child. I didn’t send any of my children to school until they were at least 7.

We spent our days at home learning through play, doing basic phonics and maths, researching topics they had a genuine interest in, joining a forest school and generally just being together.

When they joined school there were some “gaps” in their learning, but this was only as we hadn’t covered certain topics (conversely some topics like space they excelled in as they had real interests in these that they could fully explore at home!). They caught up very quickly and now academically they are above “average” across the board. More interestingly and importantly, every teacher I’ve spoken to says what lovely well behaved and articulate children they are. They listen and engage, and generally are just ready to learn now.

Do not assume school is the best place for him. You know your child better than anyone else, and sometimes, they need a bit more time at home.

If you do want to keep him in school, do not adopt unrealistic expectations and compare him to other children. Again, you know your child best and you will know how bright he is better than anyone else. Keep encouraging him at home and build him up. He will get there!

Ex primary head here. I disagree with those who have said you are being unreasonable.

This sounds to me like a poor teacher. It sounds as if she doesn’t know your son well at all. I would definitely recommend writing to the headteacher explaining the situation and asking for a meeting with both teachers together so you can explain to them what he is like at home and your concerns about what you were told (and the way it was said) on Parents Evening. If he is really a bright, curious child who has lots of interests but is just late in developing fine motor control or other skills, they should be doing extra to help him, or at least suggesting activities for you to do with him at home. It is possible that he has other Special Needs, but he is so young I wouldn't rush to pin any labels on him.

It obviously takes longer for a job-share teacher to get to know each child well, but she should know him by now.

However, I wouldn't rush to move him because all schools have teachers who are less skilled than others.

This sounds really shit.

My DC really struggled to make friends till y2 and didn't read till he was 7 (yes he did go to an excellent preschool 3 days a week before anyone asks) ALSO very quiet in class - and his teachers never compared him to others or made us feel shit about his progress or lack thereof. He's extremely bright but dyslexic with slow processing speed and otherwise neurodivergent.

Wait and see the other teacher. In the meantime do loads of work on gross and fine motor skills. You don't mention moving around much (climbing / hiking / balancing / gymnastics / forest school rather than playground or walks) so maybe his core strength and motor skills are behind. My DC has a physical condition which impacts this and that has a knock on effect on classroom stuff in ways you wouldn't imagine.

The fact that you’re a qualified teacher makes this entire situation bizarre!

Why? I don't teach this age group. It's completely different at secondary school, aside from trying not to give parents the impression that their dc are useless, which is what this teacher did. I appreciate people saying she has raised valid concerns, but she didn't frame it this way or say constructive. It was all - 'look what these children can do that your ds can't...'

How nice for you to have someone to foot the bill whilst you ‘spent time’ with your kids 😂😂

This is complete judgmental nonsense- fall behind in writing at the age of 4?

Check with the school about their plans to support his social needs - nurture groups/friendship groups etc. if they are calling him “silent” then they need to be addressing that and helping him. He’s not silent at home etc so ask them why they think he is silent at school and what they can do to support him.

Same for fine motor - there’s loads of interventions they can run on that, and loads you can do at home easily so I wouldn’t worry about that. As people have said boys fine motor skills develop slower than girls. If it’s an issue at secondary he can type for GCSE anyway 🙂

You’re doing all the right things - reading and talking and supporting his interests.

OP have you actually had a chat to him about why he is quiet at school and different to how he is at home ? With a bright kid who is old for his years I would definitely do this first before I go any further … you know your child best but this would definitely have been possible with both of my DC ( one of whom sounds very like your DC at that age)

It sounds like the activities he likes perhaps don't include the activities that help pre writing skills. Sandplay, play dough, fingerpainting, craft. Also a basis of larger motor skills is needed to enable fine motor skills so physical play at play park, sport will help.

So what if he’s 4? You think there aren’t milestones that are notable at 4? Things teachers won’t notice? That you can’t have SEN? She shouldn’t have had to show others work no but if he is struggling and she was met with the attitude that’s coming across in the OP’s posts I’m not surprised she did. Sometimes parents need a visual representation of the difficulties.

@RitzybitzyI'm also a qualified teacher and I can see where OP is coming from. It's not like teachers always get it right either - summer boys are vastly over represented in SEN data because teachers, among others, may be misjudging the cause of the gap between them and peers. He probably will be fine because it is a big shift from a smaller, quieter environment to a busy one where his primary person isn't as focused on him and him alone. And if there is something that needs investigating, OP is clearly engaged and on the ball - there's no need to leap to SEN diagnoses yet!

Because as a teacher you should know that - however it’s delivered - they aren’t in the habit of raising concerns if there are none.

Not all teachers are good teachers, unfortunately. (I’m a teacher.) OP's son's teacher clearly doesn’t know him well at all. It was crass to assume that he comes from a family who don’t talk to him much, before talking to his parents and actually finding out more about what he is like at home. And even if there are valid concerns, she should have been more sensitive and made more constructive suggestions for what OP could do.

I haven't read the entire thread but just wanted to say your DS sounds lovely. He sounds very similar to my eldest. When she first started school they thought she was behind and it didn't match up to my experience with her at home where the conversations we had demonstrated that she was very bright. She was a bit resistant to learning to read, it was frustrating for her. It didn't really click for her until she was in year 1. By the time she was 6 (in year 2) she read huge books and could discuss with me the content of the books with good understanding. She went on to get top GCSE grades, 4 A levels at A and A star and to university studying a highly academic course.

She is also autistic and has ADHD. She struggled socially in school and has struggled with executive functioning skills as she got older. Like your ds I would see her playing happily with other children in playgrounds etc but she could never move on from that to making a real friendship at primary. She did find her tribe in secondary though.

It is what they call "twice excepional" very bright/gifted but also facing challenges due to neurodiversity. It is possible to be very bright and still struggle. Obviously, I can't say from a few posts on here that your son is ND but I do think it is a possibility that you should be open to.**

Some other posters have given some good advice. Just wanted to add some things that stuck out to me as a Reception teacher and some stuff you can do at home. He really shouldn’t be reading Biff, Chip and Kipper anymore. The school is supposed to have invested in a proper government-accredited phonics scheme with books linked to the sounds they’ve learned each day. Do they do that? It might just be that they’re sending the Biff, Chip and Kipper home instead of the expensive new ones because they don’t want them getting lost, but something to check. Please keep reading proper books to him as well as hearing that rich language is so important. I wouldn’t try to get him to sound out words from ‘real’ books as they’re often not phonetically plausible and it’ll confuse him. You can demo pointing to each word as you read though and leave gaps for him to fill in, eg ‘Silly old snake, doesn’t he know? There’s no such thing as a…..’ (then let him say Gruffalo.)

He should really be writing his name by now. You can practise at home with magnetic letters or a laminate sheet like this:
H a r r y
_ a r r y
H_ r r y
H a _ r y
etc etc all the way down until he’s practised writing each letter individually then builds up to the whole name. He probably will argue with you and not want to do it, especially if he’s got it into his head that he’s not ‘good’ at writing, but learning to do boring things when you don’t want to is really important.

He can count to 100, so he has stable order principle (knowing that numbers are said in the same order), but does he have 1:1 correspondence? Eg if he has 4 things can he count them accurately, saying 1 number for each point? There’s an amazing episode of Numberblocks called How to Count which demos this. Numberblocks in general is great- I think it’s developed by a mathematician and it shows the concepts really well.

I don’t mean this to overwhelm you, just to give you some ideas so you don’t feel powerless and like you don’t know what you can do to help.

Well he would be ' behind' because he didn't go to nursery. He isn't used to structured time or group mentality. He does not have to be loud to get attention. It's a massive culture shock!
He is very young and this is all quite normal .

My dc didn't go to nursery either. Same sort of thing tbh. See another teacher, accept he hasn't been drilled to write his name, and I would certainly want to know why another child is labelled ' the quiet one' and why my ds is now labelled the same. And why that is highlighted in such a way.

A rather inexperienced teacher informed me one of my dc was dyslexic. Nothing was further from the truth. At that point, after much stress and worry, money spent on diagnosis, dc in ' special group' it was admitted that a mistake had been made. At that point we did move schools.

Your son sounds v like mine, except mine is an early autumn birthday. Despite what others suggested, he is likely to be bright, but because he is (technically) behind with the formal recording of academic achievement ie reading and writing, his abilities are being missed.
I think a follow up meeting with the other teacher is an excellent starting point. The tone of the teacher at the parents evening was poor. All you need to know about is your child and possible strengths and weaknesses. Comparisons with other children and more general comments show issues with her, not your son.
If your son is a little 'unusual', it maybe that the 2 day a week teacher doesn't 'get' him so is coming out with odd things during a parent evening. Almost pretending she knows him better than she does.... The 3 day a week teacher may have a much better understanding of him. (This is often an advantage of a job share).
Have 2 primary aged children and an educational background (as does other half). Reception was horrendous as the teacher did not 'get' my bright, articulate son and this was demonstrated by her reports and comments about him. Fortunately the TA did and became his key person, along with lessons in another class. (These 2 staff members than did parents evenings). This got him through reception. (He was in a preschool v part time and with me the rest of the time before starting school).
He is now in Y2 and whilst he flourishes overall, he's writing is the one thing holding him back. His brain is working too fast for him to be able to record his thoughts on paper with all the required that requires. (Spelling, punctuation etc) Forming the letters is the other part of writing and he's fine with that.
He is also a little isolated as he's in a small school without similar minded children around. He is a really sociable little lad and chats with anyone!
I wish you good luck, but if you feel moving him to a different school would benefit him, don't hesitate. It is so important to get those early years right or he could be put off school.
PM if you want a further chat without it being public

There are indeed bad teachers but that doesn’t alter that they don’t raise concerns for kids if there are none.

Was absolutely everything she said negative? Or have you forgotten the positives? It's human nature to focus on the negative so sometimes we over hear that, and miss the positives.

It sounds like the teacher asked questions, rather than assuming.

I'd see what the other teacher says first before making any rash decisions. It sounds like your expectations of 4yo and theirs are a bit different. Now you're aware, you can work with your DS.

Just got your information this is the least likely scenario. Those kids are few and far between.

@Ritzybitzy
She wasn't 'met with attitude' from me/dh at all. She went straight to showing us the other work! It wasn't that she raised concerns and we started arguing back - her opening gambit was, 'look at this other...ds isn't doing that yet, is he?' To be honest, we were both so taken aback we didn't say an awful lot but we did ask what we could do, which was when she asked if we had pens and paper. Then I tried to shift the topic onto social matters and got the silent comment back, followed up by the question about the TV. After that I just wanted to leave.

It's different at secondary as we are experts in our subjects and many parents will have no knowledge about them whatsoever. Obviously I do know that my son is not silent and does have some academic ability, but I accept that he isn't showing that at school and we need to find out why. If her attitude with the kids is how it was at the meeting, I'm not surprised that she doesn't get much from him, but obviously she may be better with the kids than she is with parents. I did get the distinct impression that she wasn't very interested in ds though and had pretty much written him off.

Firstly, that teacher sounds unprofessional but some teachers aren't great with parents. See the other teacher, id tell her what was said and see what she says.
I'm a reception teacher and all of the things you said sound great and you clearly nurture him really well it just might not be showing at school.
Fine motor skills could be a struggle for him and if you compare that to children who might have been drawing or colouring since a young age that's why there might be a difference.
To give you an idea an average child in my class can
Write a cvc word e.g. pig and maybe even big pig but some of the letters might not be correct
They can form most letters correctly or a good go at them
They can read cvc words or words with sh, th etc at start
Can read the, he, me, she by sight
Can talk about odd and even numbers (or starting to)
Can order numbers to 10
Can find 1 more or 1 less to 10 for some numbers not all yet
Can cut, draw and play without too much adult involvement, just go off and do this and play with others
If you do take him out or want to you could speak to the head. One teacher doesn't mean the whole school is like that.