To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

Don't worry. Children don't need to write/read at 4. UK is unique in this regard - children here start school really early. In other countries school starts more like at 6-7 years. I went to a Reception class in another European country at nearly 6 and I was the only child who could read. I would only start worrying if he does not improve in 2 years.
One of my children attended a preschool that he didn't enjoy, where the teachers ignored the kids who tried to start a conversation. None of the staff there seemed happy to work with children and the head teacher told me off all the time, as my kid had frequent screaming meltdowns there and they had no clue what to do with him - they isolated and punished him for meltdowns and once he even fell asleep exhausted at the desk where they sat him down alone as a punishment for screaming and crying. I really had the prejudice vibe from the head as well, as she called me a Romanian (I'm not) and she must have assumed that I do not bring up my kids the same (correct) way as Brits or something like that. In their end of school report they said DS would have some difficulty getting used to Reception setting. He went to Reception and the new head has no concerns whatsoever. DS is as happy there as he can be.

Please don’t worry. You sound a wonderful parent. Keep encouraging and supporting your DS to enjoy learning. Don’t force it on him. Keep reading to (and with) him. A love of books and reading is the best way to be educated. And he sounds fascinated by the world and enquiring.

Your DS is still very young. In most European countries, kids don’t start formal school until 6. Boys, especially, take a bit longer and don’t enjoy sitting down for too long. My eldest couldn’t even read ‘the’ at 7 years (started school in another country), but was devouring huge Harry Potter books at 9 and went on to a science degree. At that age, kids develop at different stages.

I have much older DSs and, believe me, you get these awful, negative, judgemental teachers from time to time. Like you do in all workplaces. Some teachers have a very disparaging view of parents. We had one recently in 6th form. Talked to me as if I’m an idiot, when I’m much better educated and far more experienced than him. His problem that he’s negative and patronising.

Your DH is right. Speak to the other teacher to get a rounded perspective. And don’t let them pressure you over the progress of a 5 year old! That’s ridiculous.

On the social side, if your DS easily approaches and plays with other kids in parks etc, you have nothing to worry about. The more he settles into school, the more confident he’ll become and the more friends he’ll make. He’s been used to mostly adult company, so will take time to adjust. But he will.

Just wanted to share the story of my son and a friend's son. Both were home with us sahm until reception. They both struggled to adapt because they were not used to being in group settings. We heard the same things (behind in xxx). It turns out her son had an iq above average so he struggled with some basic skills while he was way beyond the others in comprehension which the teachers didn't realise. He's now 11 and in year 8, the brightest student in his class/school. My son turned out to be ASD and is still struggling and will now go into adapted learning because he's not able to continue mainstream.

My point is the teachers are trained to work with NT kids, anything that's outside the norm will be looked upon with suspicion. It sounds like your son is like my friend's son; very bright but behind with basic skills due to lack of training in group sessions. Don't worry ! He will learn the basics in his time. My friend got her son tested (iq wisc 5) because she was so worried and that's how they found out he was extremely intelligent. His teacher completely changed attitude afterwards😄

You wanted someone to tell you he is gifted and far better than the 'deprived children' since you put so much personal time into doing what you thinks makes for a better parent... but he is just not. Most kids aren't and its not an attack on you as a parent (although you have seemingly made well intentioned but misguided choices).

Your DS has had no rounded socialization and it shows, thats literally what they are showing you. Socialization with PEERS (not adults) is surprisingly important at that age and children who spend all the time with adults are usually very social chatty to adults but noticeably behind the peers skill wise and struggle to interact with other child.

Teaching children useless things that you think seem impressive to adults (like for instants long scientific words) is a trap many parents fall into but it does not actually teach them any academic skills they need to learn at their age its just teaching them to parrot.

Your child doesn't have the key basic skills needed to start his function in active learning, all the museum trips and walking with dinosaurs in the world (while fun and lovely extras to do and great family time) won't fix that because he needs the BASICS first.

The good thing is he is young and being behind at this age for these things often has little long term effect if they are taught now. He absoloutly wont be the only kid that was unsocialised and fell behind, pulling him out however is the WORST thing you can do though and will double down on the mistakes.

Schools HAVE to check that kids have access to this stuff. Imagine if a child was falling behind in writing and they didn't even check he has access to paper and pens?

With me the school seem severely worried that DD is autistic, its not for me to be mad at though what would that fix. They are just saying what they see, sometimes its eye opening and other times I think 'you must know a different child'. What would dragging her out because 'my' feelings are hurt do to fix it? it wouldn't it would just isolate her further.

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but if you've not had his sight tested (it's recommended before starting school), then please do this. You'd be astonished how well children can adapt to poor eyesight, but they don't necessarily thrive in school until it's addressed. So test to rule it out hopefully. Free for sight tests.

It could be the teacher, not the school. My son was scared of his reception teacher because she was quite big and he barely said a word all year. In year 1 we were going to move him but the day we got the place was also parents evening. His year 1 teacher was SO different - actually listened to what we said about him and made a point of crouching down in the morning to say hello to him quietly etc etc. Also, Biff & Chip books are so crap. Our son hated learning to read, having loved being read to, pointing things out in books etc. I bought him (even though I hated them ) some Horrid Henry early readers and he loved them - he went up a reading level a week for a whole term. From then onwards he was always known as the class dictionary and he is now in his first year at university and is very happy.
In short, I don't think you should ignore your concerns. Try and speak to the other teacher (I don't like this shared teacher business myself) and explain that the boy she sees at school is very different to the boy you know

I'm a teacher and I don't think this teacher has approached the meeting in the right way - the comment "the other silent one" is completely inappropriate - and it's never good to be too negative at parents' meetings. It might be disruptive to move him altogether. He's still settling in to being in a school setting, which he isn't used to. I woukd also say it's not usual for all the children to be able to neatly write their name at this stage in Reception. Keep encouraging him with books at home and do fine motor skills activities like colouring, play doh, beads, cutting etc. I would keep an eye on if he remains quiet though.

I don't think the problem is your child's ability - all children have their strengths and things they find more challenging - more the way the teacher spoke to you and made explicit comparisons to other children. I would definitely meet with the other teacher.

My son is the same age.He sounds like your son in that he loves books, is articulate, loves building thing, loves a nature documentary and is an absolute whizz at lego. But he doesn't draw or write yet. He has never been interested in arts/crafts - so where for other children writing follows on naturally from colouring/painting etc, he just hasn't had that. He went to nursery 3 days a week from 1 year until he went to school. That had so many benefits for him, but engaging him in writing wasn't one of them!

But the big difference to your child is at our parents evening the teacher was so positive - she discussed the level he's at, his challenges and strengths, what we can do to support him. Bit overall she was saying what a joy he is to have in the class, how he always tries hard and concentrates etc. She's a very experienced teacher and we have full confidence in her and the school. Our child is thriving and learning so much - he loves school.

So I just wanted to show that our children sound a similar level to each other but the teacher's attitudes sound miles apart.

My son hated playgroup.
School setting was difficult at first as he preferred his own company.
School reading schemes are generally dire- he had the dreaded Village with 3 corners( Johnny Bluehat) which makes Biff and Chip look positively sparkling by comparison.
We read and shared read at home loads of general books factual and fictional- dinosaurs , science and good old Dr. Seuss which appealed to his sense of humour!
Also discovered a set of reading books by Nelson about a group of animals which were very funny but probably frowned upon now as they were written in lower case.
The bottom line is that reading needs to be fun and enjoyable not a dreaded chore.
As a teacher myself my kids all grew up using Jolly Phonics which is probably now unfashionable but imo not surpassed.
He is now grown up and after being Head boy at his Secondary School passed his A levels , obtained a degree and worked in Government until recently when he successfully applied for a post at Uni.
Your boy has his whole life ahead of him , enjoy his company and follow his interests and suggest reading you think he'll enjoy.
Incidentally my son's favourite book still remains as Peter and the Little Fox ( a hummingbird book) now sadly out of print- I've looked!

'I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.'

It doesn't sound as though she knows him very well. Good teachers know who their pupils hang out with. And I don't think that calling the other child 'the other silent one' was professional; it's very negative. A positive, engaged teacher would not reply this way.

It is obvious by the way your OP is written that you are intelligent, OP. Probably more intelligent that his teacher who sounds negative and patronising. My dc had some incredible teachers and my FIL is a teacher. In infant school, however my eldest had a teacher who absolutely should not have been a teacher. It does happen. Speak to the other teacher.

Personally, I think really good, emotionally intelligent teachers are few and far between. Generally teachers seem unable to spot introverts and treat it as a massive weakness! Whereas in actual fact, all the most intelligent people do tend to be introverts. Classrooms are zoos at the best of time and learning the social skills at the same time as to read/write/add up (all at the age of four!) is completely overwhelming. Give him time, watch and wait but don't treat the teachers like gods...they have 30 kids in the class and no time (and usually no interest) in getting to know the kids personally. In all my time doing parents evenings, there are just a handful of teachers who I've thought...yes, you get my child and you care. It's very sad, but like the nhs, it is a broken system. My eldest is 16 now and predicted all 7s, 8s and 9s at gcse. No-one ever picked him out as particularly bright...I always knew he was. He was quiet you see and unless you're shouting your brilliance across a room, no one noticed. Bit like life really!

A lot of reception learning is spent bringing kids up-to-speed with each other and getting them ready and able to learn more formally in year 1.
As your DC did not “do nursery”, it is likely that he has not yet developed some of the skills (social and literacy) that would have been part of a routine day for most of the kids that he is now mixing with. He has had close almost 1-1 attention his whole life, now he has to slot into a busy classroom.
He will catch up if there are no underlying physical/biological reasons. Your DC has more adjusting to do than the other kids. Can you get him into some out-of-school classes (gym, rugby, dance) ideally with some of his classmates? Also really throw yourself
into helping develop firendships. Mingle at the school date and get busy arranging play dates, with any child (preferably those with parents that you wouldn’t mind hanging out with for an hour while they play). If he doesn’t like writing and drawing, get play dough, Lego, letter-boards, board games and card games . These will develop motor skills, social skills and literacy without him noticing.
If there is anything underlying going on (e.g ND) it will become clearer by the end of the school year and you can work with the school to agree appropriate support in class and at home.
One of mine has never voluntary involved themselves in art and writing projects (turns out he is ADHD and doesn’t get enough instant gratification from things that take effort to achieve unless it is one of his special interests). I was the only parent not weighed down with artwork at pickup’s. He is also very bright and an early talker with amazing vocabulary.
One of my DC has a close friend who is always very quiet in class, he also used to get comments to his parents at parents evening about his social skills (they are fine when he wants to mix and mingle, he is just a quiet guy in class and out of class compared to peers). The comments made at successive parents evening both worried and then later angered his parents as they felt he was doing well, had a nice but small
group of friends and here were professionals telling them this wasn’t okay.
Talk to the class teacher, ask how he is being supported in class and what you can do at home to backup the classroom support.

Sorry if this has been mentioned but does he have problems with eyesight? Have you had him tested? It was the same with my DD, she was bright but just couldn't get the grips of reading, after a frustrating first year in reception we had her eyes tested and low and behold she could barely see.

Also it might just be that he wasn't there very long though?

My daughter hated it when she went 1.5 days a week, after a few months and upping her days to 3 per week she started to love it. She asks to go in the mornings now! It takes a while for some kids to settle I think so doesn't necessarily point to an issue with OP's DS.

If this teacher did all that, they aren't a great teacher. Showing you other children's work as a comparison, saying he is doing worse than everyone else? That's not how it is supposed to be done. Our primary school went to great lengths not to compare kids' achievements, they'd never use the term "top of the class" for example.

My child is bright. She didn't learn to read until she went to school because she just didn't want to. Don't force sitting reading every day, it isn't a chore. Instead, ask him to tell you what things say in your daily life. Mine hated being made to sit and read, instead I'd say "mummy's eyes aren't great today, what does that word say" she lapped that up. She reads loads now she is a teenager.

Don't worry too much about attainment at this stage. Sure, pre-school might have helped, but it might not. He is in school now, let him bed in this year and see how it goes.

Going to a nursery or pre school in the lead up to school would have been an advantage as they start preparing them for the school experience. At my son's school they start the reception curriculum in nursery summer term.

What I would want to know is-

How does the teacher intend to support his development?

What can I do at home to support him?

The teacher sounds quite judgemental and blamey which is unhelpful. The school needs to work with you in getting your son where he needs to be. Showing other kids work in front of him as an example of how poor his attainment is, is not good. And the fact that she doesn't seem to know him is concerning. Hopefully you will have a better experience with the other teacher

As a mum to a chatterbox DS at home who is "quiet and reserved" at school, I think there's a good chance your DS is flying under the radar a bit. Especially if he lacks the extra confidence that kids who've been in pre-school/nursery full time would have. The teacher may not know him well enough to have an accurate read on him (esp if she's only in 2 days a week).

I've definitely noticed the trend for DS throughout primary that a lot of teachers just don't know him. They think they do but in reality, they don't as he keeps his guard up. Talk to the other teacher and tell her your experience with him at home is very different to what they're seeing in school and ask what you can all do to help.

I think the teacher was incredibly rude. She has you pegged as a lazy parent, suggesting all you do is plonk him in front of the TV, and don't provide writing implements. And she has your son pegged as one of "the silent ones". And why does she not know who his friends are? Weirdo.

A lot of other posters here have been rude, too. On MN it's all "nursery is evil" until your kid's in reception, then it's "OMG you didn't send your kid to nursery?!"

I have a sensitive son who is not one of the boisterous boy gang and that doesn't mean he has social anxiety or struggles with other kids, it just means he isn't a boisterous boy. Kids are on their own trajectory for a while and that's OK.

Personally I would look into changing schools, especially if your meeting with the other teacher is as bad as this one - and I mean bad because of the teacher, not your son's attainment, which seems normal and not concerning. The school environment doesn't seem like it's working for him, but I think that's a reflection on the school, not him.

i couldn’t disagree more with this.
Firstly, why are you attacking OP and saying she wanted to be told her DS was brighter than the deprived kids?

And it’s completely incorrect to say OP shouldn’t waste time on museums and dinosaurs, and should be focussing on academic basics. What a sad narrow view.
OP you’ve done all the right things. You’ve encouraged your son to engage with the world and the things that interest him. You tried pre school but didn’t force him when he was unhappy.

He’ll be fine. Boys take longer to get into the swing of academia. My son started reception a term late as he was a summer baby, and was behind all his peers. Within a year he was near the top in everything.
I would suggest you meet the other teacher and see what she says. If she expresses the same negativity then maybe consider moving, because I wouldn’t rate teachers who spoke like that, especially not comparing work with other pupils.

I sometimes wonder if we do too many ‘big, exciting’ things with small toddlers now (days out, zoo, museum, soft play, TV) so that the relatively boring, slow process of learning to read/write is just frustrating and dull to them and they don’t have the patience for it to click.

Whoah, I’m not sure I agree. Asking the question doesn’t mean she’s pegged her as something, it’s first parents evening, she doesn’t know the op and her husband, asking the question is valid, and what she should do. And she’s not pegged the kid either, she’s explained his behaviour to date.

neither of these things are wrong.

My son struggled so badly with reading from age 4-10. At one stage they told me he was 3-4 years behind his peers and just “didn’t get it” at all. He currently (at age 13) has a reading age of 17+ and is the top reader for his entire academy. They work on a points system, earning points for the amount he’s read through their program and his points are double anyone else’s. He doesn’t just get it, He loves it.

Don’t stress so much. He’s literally only just beginning. Things are hard, new routines are hard, big classes are hard. Kids are resilient and will come along just fine in their own time. 4 is no age to be stressing about these things. You’re doing great.

Ok so listen to teacher. Get the pens and paper out. Sit together and draw and write. Work on his pencil grip.
Google - there's loads fun activities you can do together to work on these skills

@housethatbuiltme I do take exception to those comments and don't think he is 'unsocialised' - that makes him sound like an out of control dog, ffs. As I've said, he has three friends we've known from NCT classes who he plays with well and I wouldn't say he is 'the quiet one' in that group. He does pal up with children in playgrounds and he enjoyed toddler classes etc. I accept what people are saying about those experiences not preparing him for school in the way that preschool would have, but I don't think it makes him 'unsocialised' either.

I didn't want anyone to tell me he was better than other children but being told he is doing a lot worse than children, many of whom will be from disadvantaged backgrounds, is hard to hear simply because it makes me feel something has gone very wrong somewhere and I have let him down, not because I think he is inherently better. But I find it hard to regret taking him out of preschool because that time with him was really precious to me. Obviously I didn't want to spend my mat leave dropping him off somewhere he didn't want to be and then me going home without him.

I find it odd you think I have taught him scientific words to impress adults. That's not the case at all - he likes what he likes and I have followed that and tried to supplement his interests and provide experiences that enhance what he enjoys. I've never formally taught him anything, unless nursery rhymes etc sung to toddlers count. The only time I tried actual teaching (reading), he resisted so I stopped.

I also maybe should have mentioned that I teach in a secondary school and would never make a parents' evening meeting completely negative. If there is a pupil I have serious concerns about I contact the parents as soon as the issues arise to avoid a car crash of a meeting that they are not prepared for.

Totally agree. Most reception teachers will tell you they can spot a kid who hasn’t been to pre school a mile off. Mostly because of lack of socialisation.

I get OP you think your kid is bright but there is nothing you have said that ain’t completely normal to a lot of children.

At nursery they teach a kid how to write their name and fine motor skills - your kid just has some catching up to do.

If you move schools you are just moving the problem.

Also OP I would kindly suggest you change your attitude. Instead of getting upset and wanting to cry and change schools why not say to yourself ‘okay I know where he is now and what I need to do to support the areas he needs to improve’. It’s hardly over at the age of 4/5.