To think academic success is 90% of the time down to the parents

[TameSacha]

Sparked by a conversation I had at the school gates last week about how another parent wouldn’t be bothering with half term homework (which was making a collage).

I have DS8 and DD6. I read with each of them daily (they read to me and vice versa, takes about ten minutes per child), we do five minutes on their maths apps each day, and things like times tables songs in the car. We try to do at least one educational trip a term that matches with what one of them is learning about (think looking at and drawing a bridge or going to the local museum for Victorians, not going to Egypt for Egyptians). I read their syllabus each term so we can talk about the topics at home.

To me this is a perfectly normal part of child-rearing and supports the education they get at school, where underpaid teachers are on crowd control with thirty kids, some of whom don’t want to or aren’t able to learn.

AIBU to think it’s a parent’s responsibility to support their child’s learning outside of school?

I've brought my children up the exact same as each other. One has got the highest grades in every exam and is now at a RG uni achieving 1sts grades. The other is going the apprenticeship route and just does enough work to pass everything. You can't impact everything.

And they're both happy so...

There is research that shows that practising spellings is largely a waste of time, they don't impact spelling in later years. It is better to use the time to read widely or to write creatively.

Think it might be good for you to read up on the research behind learning and teaching to avoid wasting your family's time.

When I was at primary school and up until about year 8 my Dad would always help me with my homework and motivate me to learn, I loved it. Then he left and that was that. After that I didn’t do my homework, my Mum never helped me. I just gave up on school work. I remember feeling jealous of my friends whose had tuition leading up to exams and whose parents had bought them revision books. I didn’t bother going to my exams because I felt there was no point if I was going to fail.

The biggest indication of a child’s educational attainment is the level of education that the Mother has reached. I am 58, my Mother did not go to University. When she was born in the 1920’s it was still very unusual for women to go to University, overall attendance in higher education was only around 5%. She did work her way up from being employed as a cleaner to general manager of an entertainment complex and was the first woman manager ever for that company in the 1970’s.

There is nature and there is nurture and no one really knows which dominates, it’s an eternal debate. I do agree with posters saying peers in secondary school play a huge role. My friend who is a woman Professor, the first woman Prof in my old dept has two DS. One is a chartered accountant and relatively high achieving. His brother fell in with the wrong crowd at High school tried weed and ended up addicted to harder drugs and has been in prison.

Parents of primary aged children can be as smug as they like, at secondary school it all changes.

Some from the top of my head:

• science museum, self explanatory
• local river for geography
• cathedral for RE and art (crayon rubbings of textures)
• our local museum is really good and does a lot of kid-themed events
• book shop does book signings and readings quite often, we’ve also been to literary festivals
• theatre to bring books to life
• library to “research” whatever they’re learning about

All quite obvious stuff! The curriculum is often pretty broad and can be easily linked in. DD’s learning about amphibians at the moment so this weekend we’re going to look for some at the garden centre and local lake and we’ve been drawing frogs.

I did as the OP describes mainly when mine were in primary school. The only thing we didn't do was art projects as I'm rubbish at that and so were the dc. When asked to do a model of Stonehenge ds1 made one out of the dominoes from his run and I took his photo next to it and he took that in. He was praised for that but others we just didn't do. When I apologised once to the teacher she said it was no problem as they only set those kinds of tasks as it was nice for parents to have something to do with their kids. That irritated me a bit as I never struggled to find things to do with my dc and it did used to bother me (before that conversation) that there was homework that we just couldn't face doing. However, I suppose if it gave some parents who otherwise wouldn't have bothered a nudge to get stuck in and do something with their dc then it wasn't solely a bad thing.

Now mine are teens it's hard to tell what impact it all had. Both are doing well - ds1 is predicted 3 A*s for his A levels and is incredibly driven. Ds2 (Y11) has got a mixture of 6-8s in his mocks and is able but lacks ds1's drive and work ethic - not to the point of laziness but he'll do what he deems 'enough' and that's it. Who knows whether any of it is linked to all the museums and supra-curricular stuff I exposed them to when they were small. Ds1 has retained an interest in it all while ds2 claims to not remember most of the places we have been to and recently made me promise never to try and take him to the theatre again!

I do think it's pretty rubbish when parents don't read with their kids when they are learning though, and I think that does make a difference to outcomes. For some they may not have the bandwidth, but those who just don't bother are letting their dc down imo.

Children in infants have a very different attitude to learning than 15yr olds. If your children are still engaged and willing to learn at Y10 and above, then you can still be smug.

I agree that parental support is important, parental and school pressure can ruin the child's willingness to learn.

My PFB is naturally bright with little effort, easily skimmed through the top sets in High School. She burned herself out by GSCE year (school was very high pressure) and ended up with average results.

I'm not a super organised parent like you OP. I think it you have the underlying principles right the day to day activities don't matter so much. My kids parents value education and learning and support them to read in different ways. We'll go out together on family trips but not necessarily related to the theme. I don't get round to reading with them every day (but neither does their dad so why is it solely my responsibility?) Some school projects we do well and others we let slide. I can't imagine any of this will impact on their academic success. I think school has to impart a lovely of learning and support the children's needs for them to do as well as they can. Parents have an input but not 90% and this isn't about rigid adherence to certain routines but more broadly about attitudes to learning and having a growth mindset.

A body of research has shown that about 70% of academic success is explained by IQ - which is highly heritable

This. I made sure they did all the stuff I consider important, which is basically any reading / writing, and maths stuff.
We didn't necessarily do all the art projects, or things like 'design the cover of your book'. We often did it, but not always. Why? Not because the kids were watching TV, but because we were out doing other things, in particular a lot of sports training - which I considered more important. I have to say, I wouldn't value a collage at all. And I agree that some of the homework set (Twinkl!) is too easy, and some of it is even stupid - eg the ones where there are spelling mistakes in the sentences which the kids have to correct (which teaches them to get used to seeing words spelled incorrectly, in my book). So my kids sometimes didn't do that, but did a couple of pages of a CPG maths book instead!

This week for instance we are skiing, and then the kids go to the pool every night, and then we watch a family film together, and talk about it. That for me for take priority over a random collage.

I agree that parents have a huge role to play but not by doing collage or practising spelling. I didn't do homework with my kids at primary school and I have no intention of reading their syllabus or using specific words in conversation. Life is too short! However i did read with the kids regularly (not necessarily school books) and we promote learning on a day to day basis. All my children are successful at school. A lot of it is role modeling and the environment you grow up in. And probably 'nature'. They all find it easy enough just as I did. My parents never did homework with me in primary school but in secondary school i would come to them with specific issues I was facing and they were able to help. That worked for us. I'm in a professional role like my parents before me.
It's about being involved and adjusting to the kids needs surely.

When my youngest was 6 and in P2 in Scotland they were doing the vikings and the holiday homework was to make a viking longhouse out of a shoebox.

One mother, who sounded just like the OP, "helped" her child and the child turned up on the first day back with a fully electric longhouse, with a battery powered firepit which flickered into life when he flicked a switch. And a woven roof. Child learned zero because it was all about the mother showing off.

Yes parental involvement is important and education has to be valued and have importance placed on it. If you have that sort of attitude as a parent you are going to be reading to them and doing fun educational stuff with them anyway. I don't think judging a parent on whether they sing times tables in the car is a good yardstick tbh.

Nice edit save there 😂

EN FRANCAIS!!!!

I learnt th hard way that I can't rely on just the school. Fortunately it's early on and we are catching up! Will have to look up times table songs!

All quite obvious stuff! The curriculum is often pretty broad and can be easily linked in. DD’s learning about amphibians at the moment so this weekend we’re going to look for some at the garden centre and local lake and we’ve been drawing frogs.

As you say, this is all quite obvious stuff. It is nice you feel you are doing a good job, but does it warrant a thread of self-congratulation?

What difference does it make to final educational outcomes (e.g. A-level grades) if a family goes to look at frogs whilst doing that project at primary vs. looking at frogs later vs. looking at something else entirely? In many families education happens constantly and about everything - parents don't have to link everything to the curriculum - there is so much else to learn in life.

There are so many varied ways to support a child. For some the whole point is to use holidays to not do school work and do something else.

@TameSacha Anyone who has done a PGCE will know that the BIGGEST impact on child's academic success is parental support. More impact that a teacher or school can make!

By support, this could be so many things:

• Supporting the school (attendance, parents evenings, behaviour, awards)
• reading with them when younger
• making sure homework is done/offering help and support with HW
• providing them with a quiet place to work
• encouraging study (so taking phones off teenagers!)

There is a direct correlation between parents who support the school and engage with their child's education and how well a child does.

Even if a child is not academic, those with supportive parents are the ones that tend to succeed in whatever it is they excel at. (as obviously academic grades aren't the only measure of being successful and achieving!).

Echoing that OP is lucky to have compliant children (or has parented in a way that has encouraged their compliance) who are interested and capable in their learning.

I think I'd have given the collage a miss if it wasn't of immediate interest with mine. You pick your battles. My son is dyslexic and daily reading is a chore. Primary school, for him, was boring and made him think he was thick. I get him to cook with me and he reads the recipe. Or I'll get him to price up a shopping list or work up a budget for a holiday or write up cat care schedule. Sneaky skills!

But this means his reading/homework diary looks sparse as I limit the horror to once a week. Perhaps if schools and teachers had more freedom in the curriculum I would be less critical or snippy.

I'm not interested in him being a little robot. He needs realistic life skills that will ensure he survives and thrives. Confidence and resilience are key, I'm very happy for him to appropriately challenge teachers/grown ups/peers. You can only get so far on good grades and for the really motivated that's pretty much innate.

Looking at my DC, 90% is not down to the parents, no 😂😂
You encourage an academic mindset and encourage your DC all your like but you have to take account of:
Innate brain power (a chunk of which is purely genetic)
Organisational capacity
Drive and ambition
Persistence
Mental health
Physical health
Any SEN like dyslexia and autism

The best you can do is make sure they learn to read, encourage reading for pleasure (esp if dyslexic), organise time and space for homework, show them how to organise their time and fit in what they want and need to do (including a share of household chores), support and advise them, and give them as many varied experiences as you can.

IQ isn't fixed though and can be raised by, amongst other things, formal education.

That kids doesn’t do any homework at all, according to DS

Your 8 year old keeps tabs on who does and doesn’t do their homework in their class? Really?

Shock horror, I do no homework at all with my 6 year old, and she’s working in greater depth for everything and top of her class. I don’t think a child of that age should have homework at all, but we read together, chat a lot, spend a lot of time outdoors, and have a family dinner at the table every night where she tells us about her day.

I get the sense this thread is a mechanism for you to get the recognition you feel you deserve rather than concern over another child. Maybe I’m wrong?

Yes, I laughed when I saw it, it is a universal truth that if you discuss spellings you will misspell something

It is pretty fixed, you can’t substantially increase it. You can make more or less of what you’ve got

For example, SS has weekly spellings. We practice three or four times a week and he usually gets nine correct out of ten by the time he does the test at school. The words are either on a theme or related to a class topic. We use each word in a sentence and use them in conversation through the week. One week we weren’t able to practice and he got four out of ten. I do believe that learning to spell effortlessly, expanding his vocabulary and articulacy, and having adult conversations about his syllabus benefits him hugely. If people disagree with me, that’s fine. It is AIBU, after all!

We found with mine that they could then not use the correct spelling week later in a sentence - and like PP found reasearch that suggested spelling tests weren't great even when like you we tried to widen it beyond a list.

We found we needed sound foundations apple and pears program then subsquent similar style programs using words in dictated sentences. Vocabulary wasn't an issue - but encoded - just like decoding for reading was.

@TheAmusedQuail has a point though - we did way more than the HW set - and sometimes did blow the HW off - and did the support work they needed instead - and frankly looking back -( and as mine are all over 15 I can apparently be smug) - I wish I'd done more of ignoring the HW - while we thought it was a time sink it wasn't obvious till we moved how much of it was a complete waste and huge time sink and even the "fun" stuff really wasn't.

We did all the castles, museums, outdoor stuff.
Ds is a history buff, but I actually credit Assassin's Creed with that.

Dd has developed a passionate dislike for anything 'old', despite being able to fly up castle stairs like a rat up a drainpipe.

Neither of them will join me to go on a nature walk and look at things.

So far, my parental engagement has given them nothing but a pride in presenteeism.